When will people realise that pensioners have paid for their state pension.

[notsafeanymore]

Every time there is a debate about the cost of living pensioners get a bashing.
And some have also paid for a private pension.
It's people who have never worked that should be targeted first.
I'm not on about the disabled. It's people who are benefit cheats and have never worked.

In 1983 aged 30 after working for the NHS for 4.5 years I left my job. The law at the time said that for service of less than five years pension contributions should be refunded to the ex-employee. I was young & foolish so was just happy to receive an £800 windfall.

Fast forward to 2014 when I started working in the NHS again & continued for another ten years before retiring. Those 4.5 years of contributions would have substantially boosted my NHS pension.

Annoyingly in 1988 the length of service before pension contributions were refunded was reduced to two years where it remains today.

Mortgage - Government loan available

This isn’t a race to the bottom
Non pensioners can find a job. They are still of age and more than capable.
UC for them is a stop gap Nothing more

Today, the UK has roughly:

• 700,000 job vacancies
• Around 1.9–2.0 million unemployed people

That’s a lot of people who could be working and funding their pension

my point was more UC is temporary, a pension in old age is for the rest of your life with no other options for most to continue working

Agreed. You can't keep on taking away from the same group - those who have worked and contributed.

I just don't think this will ever happen - you can't remove c. £20k for a couple per year and not expect people to drastically change their behaviour. People will just stop saving, pass wealth to their kids, retire at 50 to make sure why get the state pension.

I agree to an extent but I think we all know the days of a non-means tested benefit being paid to people when they reach a certain age, regardless of how much money they have, are numbered.

To afford to keep it as it is, the age will either have to increase to a point where it really penalises the poorest in society (as they’ll have to work until they drop), or it will have to be means tested.

It’s just a question of when and which age group will be the first to be affected?

It may make people with private pension provision retire earlier, but even those are linked to the state pension age in that you can’t access them until you’re 10 years off the age (youngest age you can now access is 57). To retire at 50 you would need money in savings that are not pensions.

I think it depends if the population starts stabilising
Eventually the boomers will no longer be around and this larger bulge in demographics gone

If people have less and less children as time goes on and immigration reduces then we will have the same issues in 100 years time
But
As it stands all those born on or after 2000 who will retire in 2070 ( let’s say ) may find that by then the problem has largely gone away

As they should. People who worked and were contributors for years, should not get stick. Almost everyone will reach old age someday. It’s civilised to take care of people who contributed through working, paying taxes and raising the next generation.

@Colourfulfairylights you did say that many people retired at 60 on the new higher state pension which is categorically untrue, that was what I said you had made up. I didn't comment on how much people would eventually get out.

When pp are calculating how much today's pensioners have paid into the system, are they only counting National Insurance Contributions (both personal and employer contributions)? The main thing to remember is that pensions are paid for by taxes, not NICs and over a 45+ year working life, a great deal has been paid in both taxes and NICs when someone retires.

And a great deal has been taken out. Most people (not just pensioners) take out more than we pay in through the NHS, education, public services, welfare benefits, maintaining infrastructure etc.

If you’ve had children, the maternity care for the pregnancy, childbirth and aftercare is worth about £20k per child.

Thought we were trying to get more people to have children to ensure people get pensions?

It’s just an example of how much things cost and how we take it all for granted. The NHS isn’t ‘free’, it’s paid for out of taxes and we all benefit from it. It’s inaccurate to believe people pay taxes and NI their whole lives and only benefit from that when they collect the state pension. We take out of the system from day 1.

So if more gets taken out by the majority in a lifetime than goes in
everyone needs to pay substantially more in taxes

Pensions are paid for by taxes or borrowing. Now. Not by taxation over their working lives. There’s no savings account for them!

Do you think anyone really thinks that ?

Yes, probably true. Something will have to give eventually.

No I agree with that.

But then surely that's why we pay tax in the first place and not for failed "Garden Bridges", that high speed rail thing that benefits a few, not the many and paying off the debt that the tories have run up while selling every single universal asset we had?

Not to mention the money that the tories and their friends earned because of their dodgy dealings during covid.

They are sitting back laughing at pitting people against each other drinking their 20 year old malts and smoking £1000 cigars after eating the best food, while people on forums like this are arguing that people who have worked, paid tax and NI and raised the next generation should starve to death because they didn't have the foresight to see they might not get a paltry £1000 per month they were promised because they're not worth it.

No wonder the UK is in the state it's in.

Yes, I do think some people think they haven’t taken out of the system if they haven’t claimed benefits. They only consider being paid actual money as ‘taking’ from the system, not using the NHS or public services etc.

My husband and I are 20-25 years off the official retirement age but already very aware that govt has quietly changed the age you can access a private pension so are being very careful to save in varied ways to ensure we are able to access funds to retire when we choose, not the government. We're putting decent amounts in pensions but are also putting plenty into cash ISA's too to give ourselves options.

Agree
Think it’s the best thing to do

Never rely on one thing
We have
bonds and ISAs and money spread about
I hate the idea of the Government having so much leverage on my money and life choices

Someone earlier in the thread thought everything, in terms of population, would even out after we boomers have shuffled off this mortal coil.

I don't think that's going to work out. Many people in their 20s and 30s now have decided that having children is not for them. Fine, if that's what they want - no one should have children unless they are a hundred percent committed to the idea. Parenting is difficult and for years, unrewarding. That means though, that there will be fewer taxpayers to pay them pensions when they retire and I suspect that there will be fewer doctors, nurses and carers to take care of them when they age.

This is a problem that successive Governments have ignored, but I think, it is the elephant in the room. Yes, there are possible solutions that would probably work - but none of them are vote winners. So we will be left in a state of population decline. I shan't be here to see it, but I fear for my children and prospective grandchildren.

I do agree with you
however
There are many plus sides

The key positive impacts of a declining population include:
Lower Cost of Living: With fewer people competing for insufficient real estate, demand drops, directly easing the pressure on housing markets and making rent or property ownership more affordable.

Environmental Relief: Fewer consumers lead to a tangible reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, a lower demand for resource extraction, and reduced habitat destruction.

Improved Bargaining Power: A shrinking workforce shifts the dynamic between labor and capital. Workers often see higher real wages and greater negotiating power because labor becomes a more valuable, finite resource.

Increased Wealth-per-Capita: Some economic theories, such as those from the Institute of Economic Affairs, suggest that a smaller population means an economy needs to invest less just to maintain the current capital-to-worker ratio, leaving more capital for direct consumption and boosting average wealth.

Decreased Social Stress: Lower population density alleviates strain on public infrastructure, resulting in less congested roads, shorter wait times for public services, and less fiercely competitive educational opportunities.

Note: While these long-term benefits are substantial, the transition period involves "demographic aging," which can strain public healthcare systems, social care, and pension funds due to an increased ratio of retirees to active workers

It is a transition period that many countries are starting to now experience.

About the "unrewarding" bit. I know we're all different but the best years of my life were when my two were wee. I have never laughed as much in my life and tbh, they still have me crying with laughter. I wish we could let them know about this instead of focussing on the hard bits.

Not sure if I'm a boomer. I was born at the tail end of it.

@Differentforgirls I’d try looking in a bit more detail at the Labour debt! And they haven’t had Covid!