When will people realise that pensioners have paid for their state pension.

[notsafeanymore]

Every time there is a debate about the cost of living pensioners get a bashing.
And some have also paid for a private pension.
It's people who have never worked that should be targeted first.
I'm not on about the disabled. It's people who are benefit cheats and have never worked.

Or / and require it on every penny earned
From all sources
with no lower exemption limit

It's never been sustainable , it was brought in in 1909 with no plan of how to fund it, and it has pretty much remained in n that stay. Only artifically high postive pressure on population growth has stopped it bankcrupting us.

25% of pensioners are millionaires, they also draw 52% of the wefare budget... and then still cry on they're hard done by.
Nah.

He almost certainly has a USS pension, which isn't a publicly funded one.

the mum’s should still be able to pay for their pension as well?

there is resentment if the government starts moving the parameters for those who are coming up to retirement

YABU, the state pension is a benefit, nothing more nothing less. What you did is pay a tax you were legally obliged to.pay that funded pensions and other benefits for anyone that was entitled to them.

If people actually got the state pension they "paid for" many would be in for a very big shock. To get £12k a year from a private pension pot you need a pretty decent pension pot saved up - like a few hundred thousand pounds.

The current working generation are paying for your pension and sadlt with declining birth rates, longer life expectancy and the babay boom generation moving through retirement there simply aren't enough of us

In the south east, property prices mean that a modest home can have quite a high value. On paper, the pensioner may have a relatively high net worth (when looked at across the country as a whole, rather than just the south east), but as they need to live somewhere, it’s not something they really benefit from, as it often isn’t an asset they can liquidate to use.

They may also have income from pensions they sacrificed salary to pay into. If pensions were to become means-tested, what do you think would happen to people’s saving/ paying into pensions habits?

This. I’m in my 50s and started working at 21 after uni. I was told back then that it was a good idea to pay into my workplace pension. So I did. It wasn’t rocket science.

I agree. That’s why I’d like nic to be scrapped and income tax increased.

I started working as a manager for the local council in 1986 and stayed for 30 years. 3 years previously, I'd had a benign brain tumour removed, no lasting effects, full recovery. HR told me I was ineligible for their pension (this was legal, apparently, in 1986) because of my health record so wasn't allowed to join. I retired in 2016 and at no point was I 'invited' to enrol - I think it was mentioned about 5 years before I left but not with any enthusiasm. My state pension is about £15k a year as I never opted out, obviously.

People with money aren’t going to spend it just to get state pension. It makes no sense to put yourself in a position to get a low standard of living in retirement just to get £12k state pension if you could have saved/worked to build a pension fund of £100k p.a. The behavioural impact is at the bottom end where state pension plus still be given assuming means testing is at a sensible level of £60/£100k.

You voted in general elections for parties’ manifestos such as privatisations and demutualisations and selling off council houses, etc. More recently you voted for brexit. The statistics clearly show the votes of older people are more skewed towards right wing parties and brexit. None of our current problems happened in a vacuum - the population voted for parties with policies that helped cause them.

Many people are struggling with cost of living, and living standards have slipped badly in the last 20 years. There are lots of people who struggle to afford to pay into a pension now.

If those people are faced with a choice of scrimping each month to pay into a pension, or not to do that and instead be able to afford a holiday or some meals out, which do you think they will choose, if they know their pension saving will just reduce their state benefits?

What would actually be the point of saving into a private pension, in those circumstances? Why would people do that if they don’t see a benefit to that?

And what do you think will be the impact on state finances if a sizeable tranche of the population decide it isn’t worth their while to pay into a private pension, so many more people need topping up once they’re pensioners?

I do not begrudge pensioners but what you say is not accurate.

With the state pension, what pensioners paid when they were working paid for pensions at the time, as well as for the NHS and welfare.

The pensions when most of them were working were relatively much lower than they are now, there was no triple lock, WFA didn’t always exist and there were fewer pensioners to support.

So in simple terms, most people (today) will take out a lot more than they paid in, unless they were a very very high earner or they die before the average life expectancy age.

It’s also possible for someone to have the full NI ‘stamp’ and never worked a day in their life. You can get years for full time education, having children under certain years and when you’re in receipt of certain benefits.

Yes but as I say, means testing would be at a relatively high level so those struggling would still qualify for it. As I’ve said the means testing needs to be £60/£100k so way above people struggling!

Nail on the head on all points. At the very least when the triple lock was announced there should have been a tax rise to pay for it rather than it being unfunded. But as usual the politicians didn’t think it through and left yet another time bomb for future governments.

I mean my own mother has maybe 10 years of being in paid employment her entire life but will qualify for a full state pension due to being on benefits since I was born 40 years ago. So no, not every pensioner has paid for their pension and we’re now entering the generation where lots have managed to claim benefits their full adult lives.

It’s not about ‘deserving’.

But when state pension was set up for ‘those who came before’ life expectancy was 66 and men received the state pension at 65. If we had that model today, people would get state pension at about 78.

Those who came before also received much much less (in relative terms) than pensioners do today.

Plus not everyone has paid in, some haven’t paid a penny.

You don’t think people paying over £30k in tax and NI a year deserve free childcare? (Or a percentage of the childcare to be free).
Why?

@Coconutter24 They don’t get child benefit either. It holds people back from promotion. They lose too much.

Women would be the ones to suffer if there was no state pension or it was linked to years actually worked rather than you getting 'credits' while looking after children. Women tend to be lower paid, have more responsibilities outside of work and less opportunities to save for retirement. Also the government would have to put more into social care as if women had to work full time at all times (and I know some do already!) then there would be less 'free' care for the elderly.

And it’s damaging generally when people like doctors and dentists cut back their hours to keep under £100k so they don’t lose free childcare and fall into the 62% marginal tax bracket. Just fuels difficulty in accessing healthcare due to them working fewer hours leading to increased waiting lists etc.

Lol just read that thing about transfer of wealth.
My "boomer" mum and dad managed to buy a house. Dad died 25 years ago. Mum is now in a care home and the generational wealth is neatly flowing at £1500 per week into a care home.
Really hoping that me and dh can create another shot at this as Gen X and pass something on to our kids.

Exactly this. In-laws and Dad similar. My mother is a bit more following the rhetoric “we’ve paid our dues” but that (and other worse) views come from right-wing press.

I don't think you all need to worry that much. The age distribution isn't a problem - issues will arise if the working-age population doesn't have enough taxable income.

"In 2020 Millennials became the largest generational cohort, surpassing the Boomers for the first time. The following year, the UK Boomer population was then overtaken by Generation X, the generation born between Boomers and Millennials. Generation Z, remained smaller than the three generations that preceded it until 2024 when there were more Gen Zers than Boomers."