Labour isn't Working - Thread 35

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour* *government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5538300-labour-isnt-working-thread-34?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I reckon Elon Musk should quit rabble rousing and instead fund the victims’ class action lawsuit against the British State based on human rights grounds.

I read your comments on the FWR thread, they left me raging tbh, but we try to agree to disagree politely on this thread. There are enough bunfights elsewhere on MN.

Sammy has earned the right to speak wherever she sees fit imo. The fact that she was instructed to not mention race on GMB should give an indication of whats she's up against.
If people like Lowe are the only people willing to give these women a voice, thats where they will go. It will never impact their credibility in my eyes.

Same. You’ve said it well. I’m mostly just bewildered by the deafening silence.

Spot on.
This may not be the bees-knees of inquiries, but it puts some on the horrors on record, leaving less space for the official inquiry (if it ever happens) to employ tactics that will dilute the truth.
I grew up in Oldham. It was rife, and no doubt still is. I left just before the race riots of 2001.

I feel that hobnobbing with literal fascists and white supremacists is... well, Sammy can meet who she likes, but it's not a step I would take. But I understand that this is a controversial opinion, and also that disrespecting Uncle Rupert is unwelcome.

Strangely enough, the other thing I sometimes say on FWR that has posters "raging" is when I mention rape culture in left wing organisations. Funny that.

It’s not about ‘Uncle Rupert’. It’s about the victims.

Also this thread isn’t FWR. It’s not really the place for snark at each other.

As I said, if right-wingers are the only ones willing to speak the whole truth, so be it.
Not sure what mean with the Uncle Rupert thing? I wouldn't support or vote for Lowe if I was paid to do so. I'm also not attacking you, or accusing you of being some left-wing denier. I just thing you're wrong saying what you said about Sammy. You're focusing on who she speaks to, rather than what she is saying.

You ever get the feeling that generally men don't care if women get raped, that somehow they deserved it? It's like it's a victimless crime.

'Uncle Rupert?' Do you mind? Do you see anyone doffing their cap here?

'You're focusing on who she speaks to, rather than what she is saying', Yes, this happens a lot. We want perfect victims on perfect platforms so we can compose bulletproof arguments. But nobody owes us that.

I agree that a private inquiry is insufficient, but there is enough accusation that it needs to be bottomed out. Ignoring it doesn’t work for me. I need the government and BBC to clearly lay out what exactly happened and why it won’t happen again.

Grey rocking the situation just makes me suspicious.

I’m very main-stream. I watch the BBC news at 10pm and Newsnight, I read the Times, Economist and Spectator. I don’t know a lot of the far right names mentioned on threads because I am not in that world. I am a member of the Conservative party.

My antenna are up now. I just feel that women and girls are NOT being valued and respected. If Rupert Lowe and his gang are whipping up something out of nothing, let’s bottom it out. It could be that he is gauche but correct in this instance. He is really neither here nor there. The young women are the ones who matter.

Doesn't matter who she talks with or whom she votes for, it doesn't change a molecule of the fact that she has been a victim of horrible abuse for being a vulnerable young white girl, who was failed by society, institutions, and progressive values (it has to be said), and she is now fighting for justice for her and all victims.

Everyone should hear what she suffered, from far right to far left. The whole effing humanity should hear it and hang their heads in shame. She deserves support, respect and compassion. Not to have ppl like you undermining her advocacy because you don't personally approve of every person she talks to and/or every opinion she holds.

Because it must be around the 10th time in a few days I see you systematically reminding everyone that she attended that conference that is so beyond the pale of your impeccable taste and credentials.

What is your goal if not to undermine and taint her reputation? How do you feel even entitled to judge her and how she processes her trauma and her story?

Dan Hodges takes aim from the hip at Starmer. IMO, Labour is beyond salvation and whoever wins the leadership context needs to call a GE. We need a political reset (but I have little faith we'll get it). The whole political arena is exhausting.

https://archive.ph/CyDbW

Less than two years ago, a Labour Government was elected on the basis of a (fairytale) manifesto, with Starmer as PM, charged with delivering said manifesto.

This has now been entirely abandoned, and a new individual will be in charge with a large majority and an entirely different set of plans to the ones presented to voters. Either the House of Lords should block every bill until a GE, or the King should dissolve parliament in order to force a GE.

Many of us did not vote for this - it’s absurd.

OK, I think it would be difficult to disagree with…

Rape gangs operated for a long time with little action from the local authorities and police. There are many victims. Those victims require justice and truth.

There’s a strong and reasonable view that there are grounds to suspect political interference, blind eyes and so on. When it came to a head, Labour behaved utterly disgracefully but were pushed into at least a form of public inquiry.

The country deserves something better. But private inquiries are not the ‘better’, they’re just more evidence and substance for the proper inquiry we should be having.

Once this craven and awful Labour government has gone, a better government can commission and appoint a truly reliable and worthwhile inquiry, including a close look at local authority and police decision making.

I've seen a reference to the 'underclass'. I'd hoped we'd left that concept in the1930s.

Apologies to all for not respecting the rules and the tone of the thread, I will be better next time.
But I was fuming...

Lovely

That’s my hope too.

'You're focusing on who she speaks to, rather than what she is saying', Yes, this happens a lot. We want perfect victims on perfect platforms so we can compose bulletproof arguments. But nobody owes us that.

I agree.

I can see how it might be perceived that she somehow taints the case by association but it’s her life and experience and I respect her decision and see where she comes from.

It’s complicated.
I can see how this case had been minimised, swept under the carpet by some and on the other hand just how tempting it can be the others to try and use it and this is what the victims have to navigate. It can’t be easy.

Her decision is the right one for her.

I can’t imagine how hard it is to be blanked by politicians, the media and the establishment pretty much.

For Sammy Woodhouse or Siobhan Whyte and other women who don’t meet some politically expedient criteria.

Funny story. My grandson year six has a left wing teacher. She asked the class if the rich should give their money to the poor put your hands up if you agree. Lots of hands went up, but not my grandson. She asked why not. There followed a debate apparently with grandson holding onto his logical belief that it wouldn't work. She couldn't win him round. 😁

Nutchatch: I grew up in Oldham. It was rife, and no doubt still is. I left just before the race riots of 2001.

Oh yes Oldham in the early -late 90s the Town Centre looked like it had escaped from 1970s East Germany The Belgrade Hotel looking like the 'Secret Police' and Premier League Football under Joe Royle. The first time I visited Oldham as a girl from rural Kent ( though a 2nd year Keele Uni Student) was 1993 with DH watching Man City 26/01/1993.

Belegrade Hotel Oldham in 1993 looked like the Secret Police HQ !

Belgrade Hotel !

I was so intrigued by your posts that I googled the Belgrade Hotel. Absolutely brilliantly surreal name for a 1970s hotel in Oldham. Sort of gives off Wes Anderson meets Monty Python vibes.

I wish I’d stayed there.

On hotels, I have stayed in the Adelphi in Liverpool a couple of times, a long time ago. It was a right nightmare. Stuffed full of hen and stag goers shouting and screaming. And so decrepit. It may well be lovely now, of course.