Gaz Oakley no longer vegan and the backlash he has received is ridiculous

[Magicalbroomstick]

Gaz Oakley is no longer vegan. I can’t believe the amount of backlash he has received. He has deleted his instagram. People saying he was never really vegan.
I’m a vegetarian and was a vegan for 3 years when I was breastfeeding my oldest, then realised I couldn’t live without cheese!

It's a very 'my religious belief has been challenged' type response isn't it to just deny that the other person could be saying something that could make as much sense as what you are saying.

1. I don't think it is needless for an animal to die so that I can eat it. I have an innate desire to eat meat sometimes and observable evidence indicates that is a normal and natural thing to do. So it isn't needless.
2. Calling animals 'innocent' is anthropomorphising them. I see an inherent difference between animal life and human life - part of that is not seeing a concept of innocence in the way you have described it as being in any way relevant to the argument.
3. My point about killing is that it puts the action in the person eating - I haven't actually killed the animal. I'm just eating it. The supposed morality in how animals are or aren't killed can be skipped over when you put the action into the hands of someone who isn't actually involved in it.

In your sentence 'if you want to eat meat then you accept that an innocent animal has been killed to feed you.' the actual indisputable facts are 'if you want to eat meat then it is a dead animal'. At a push the facts are 'if you want to eat meat then you eat an animal that died for the purpose of being eaten.'

I have a feeling you are being a bit obtuse.

Looking at your last paragraph you appear to be jumping linguistic hoops to try and prove a point. I’m not sure that I’m the one being obtuse.

When you tried to argue about how the animal on your plate became un-alive you lost me. I don’t think morality is something that should be skipped if you are at arms length.

Are lions/sharks/badgers etc animal abusers then?

So you do admit it is morality (which is not factual) that characterises veganism. And I'm sure everyone can acknowledge that morals can and do change among individuals, cultures, historical periods etc. That's actually one of the factual things about morality - it's subjective and contextual nature.

Phew - we got there.

What on earth????

Lions / sharks / badgers don’t breed animals for slaughter. They also can’t pop to Waitrose and buy some chickpeas!

I will ignore your tone and just accept that you have tried to educate me that animals are not innocent, their death is not needless, it’s natural and needed, and killing is ok if it’s done by someone else.

Let’s not get on to the environmental issues as I am confident you will be able to prove that vegans do more harm to the environment than meat eaters. Don’t tell me…. Insects killed by tractors and Avocado airmiles????????

I haven't tried to educate you on that. I just explained my perspective, which is different from your perspective. And unlike you, I can comprehend that people believe different things and that that isn't a bad thing. I haven't denigrated your beliefs I've just acknowledged that they are not universal truths, even though they are probably very important to you.

Comparing them to religious beliefs, by the way, is not an insult from my perspective.

That’s what she said, I couldn’t live without cheese doesn’t mean she’d die without it!

as an aside I thought this was about gaz top!

I don't think this is unique to vegans OP. And I say that as a full on meat eater.

People who make their name on social media are building a relatable persona (not saying this is a good thing, but it is a thing). Some of their fans think of them more as friends. So they feel betrayed if the persona isn't real.

Gone are the days when Fanny Craddock presented a recipe for casserole, and you copied it because it looked nice, not because you identified with her and thought she might want to go for a sherry with you one day.

You are using very human words to describe an animal. What if that animal has killed another animal for food - by your anthropomorphising that would make them not innocent and fair game?

They kill to eat. So do humans. There is no difference.

And why would she want to?

Some vegans are funny, it would have more of an impact if everyone cut down their meat consumption rather than a few people being 100% vegan, but they are so obsessed there’s no flexibility. You have to be completely committed to the cause or nothing.
im not surprised some vegans have turned against him.

Im going to leave this thread now as I don’t think I am achieving anything positive by continuing.

Just wanted to be clear that I did not in any way consider the religious comparison negative or suggest it was an insult. I have already stated that I found your comparison interesting and thought provoking.

He’s a young person and will try 101 different things over his career. No I can’t get worked up over this.
Honestly as people age and mature hard lines often become blurry.

I agree, people grow and change. It’s the he wasn’t really a vegan that gets me, I was definitely a vegan when I tried it. And it was very difficult. I do feel guilty about the cows and her calf! But not enough to give up something I love!
I only knew of him from instagram recipes but I now follow his YouTube channel. I do like a homesteader lifestyle, nice to have found a British version as it all American on YouTube.
I was looking for vegan recipes on YouTube and up popped the controversy videos.

What is gaz top?

The amount of hatred I get for no longer being a vegan is insane

I'm a vegan. Hopefully the non-judgemental variety. I definitely don't think anyone should get hate for giving up veganism. To me, veganism is about kindness and compassion, mostly to animals, but also to humans, including to non-vegans.
However, I do also understand why some people are upset about Gaz Oakley. Not so much that he's given up veganism; but he made a fortune on a vegan platform, which enabled him to buy land and his current privileged now non-vegan homesteading lifestyle. I get why some people (vegans and non-vegans alike) feel it's a betrayal.
I don't personally feel that way, as I didn't really follow him. I just watched a few of his Avante Garde Vegan videos a few years ago. Impressive recipes. But, I don't ever idolise people I've never met. So, I didn't feel invested. I guess if you put yourself out there on a particular platform, you have to expect some backlash if you become a turn coat. But, that doesn't make it OK. I'm glad I live a life of obscurity!

@WinterCosiness Not so much that he's given up veganism; but he made a fortune on a vegan platform, which enabled him to buy land and his current privileged now non-vegan homesteading lifestyle

It’s this really. Tesco want to open a Turkey Twizzler factory and make a ton of money? Crack on. Jamie Oliver wants to open a Turkey Twizzler factory and make a ton of money? No, that’s hypocritical to the extreme.

I've never heard of this bloke but I'm not surprised he's getting backlash. A lot of vegans are incredibly militant and sanctimonious. I have limited sympathy if he was pushing veganism as something which is healthy and desirable. It is neither.

All kinds of judgement about other people’s diet is stupid.