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‘It’s not a nice world to bring children into’ - Births fall to the lowest level in 50 years - BBC article

131 replies

OneBusyFinch · 03/06/2026 10:35

Just reading this article and don’t think I’ve seen a thread on it.

More people are having fewer children - and it’s not just the UK, the data shows it’s a worldwide trend. Interesting reading the different perspectives.

A photograph of Stacey Waring wearing a red top standing in a barn. She is by herself wearing dark sunglasses on her head and smiling at the camera.

'It's not a nice world out there': Birth rates hit a 50-year low

Live births in England and Wales are at their lowest since 1977, while the age of first-time mothers has also risen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgzdq23xpgo

OP posts:
CurdinHenry · 03/06/2026 12:53

Brunchatstephanies · 03/06/2026 12:51

And ailing. The trend towards continuing life no matter what the quality of life is a modern invention too, that adds to the pressure of that middle generation too.

Absolutely. Completely infuriates me that I'm doomed to an undignified awful end of life because of a noisy minority of unimaginative people.

footbeds · 03/06/2026 12:53

CurdinHenry · 03/06/2026 12:46

We live in a tech supported age where assisted dying will certainly be accepted in civilised countries before too long. Old populations are peaceful ones.

They may be peaceful but they are expensive particularly when resources start to become scarcer and life gets more expensive.

Wallywonker72 · 03/06/2026 12:54

Having a child / reproducing was never meant to be ‘fun’ or ‘easy’ or ‘rewarding’’. The drive to reproduce one’s genes and pass them on is one of the most powerful biological forces that there is, driving both males and females inevitably towards it. The individual has never counted in this respect, it still doesn’t for every single other species on the planet. They live, they reproduce, they raise their offspring until they can reproduce then they die.

Every single reason for not having children is selfish - and I don’t mean that in a negative or judgey way. But they all prioritise the personal, individual, material pleasures and easier choices. The primitive joys of motherhood, such as they are, were never intended to be more fun or more rewarding than the plethora of alternatives that women have today.

my sister doesn’t have kids. She can essentially do what she likes, when she likes, as she likes and she considers no one but herself when choosing. There’s no question that her life is more ‘fun’ and vastly easier than mine - it obviously is. More money, less stress, more holidays, no responsibilities, more freedom. But it’s not a fair competition.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

CurdinHenry · 03/06/2026 12:55

Wallywonker72 · 03/06/2026 12:54

Having a child / reproducing was never meant to be ‘fun’ or ‘easy’ or ‘rewarding’’. The drive to reproduce one’s genes and pass them on is one of the most powerful biological forces that there is, driving both males and females inevitably towards it. The individual has never counted in this respect, it still doesn’t for every single other species on the planet. They live, they reproduce, they raise their offspring until they can reproduce then they die.

Every single reason for not having children is selfish - and I don’t mean that in a negative or judgey way. But they all prioritise the personal, individual, material pleasures and easier choices. The primitive joys of motherhood, such as they are, were never intended to be more fun or more rewarding than the plethora of alternatives that women have today.

my sister doesn’t have kids. She can essentially do what she likes, when she likes, as she likes and she considers no one but herself when choosing. There’s no question that her life is more ‘fun’ and vastly easier than mine - it obviously is. More money, less stress, more holidays, no responsibilities, more freedom. But it’s not a fair competition.

The drive clearly isn't that strong at all hence the reduction in people doing it.

CurdinHenry · 03/06/2026 12:56

I do find it weird when people who have kids bitterly complain about those who didn't. An evil stork didn't visit you in the night.

HoppityBun · 03/06/2026 13:02

Wallywonker72 · 03/06/2026 12:54

Having a child / reproducing was never meant to be ‘fun’ or ‘easy’ or ‘rewarding’’. The drive to reproduce one’s genes and pass them on is one of the most powerful biological forces that there is, driving both males and females inevitably towards it. The individual has never counted in this respect, it still doesn’t for every single other species on the planet. They live, they reproduce, they raise their offspring until they can reproduce then they die.

Every single reason for not having children is selfish - and I don’t mean that in a negative or judgey way. But they all prioritise the personal, individual, material pleasures and easier choices. The primitive joys of motherhood, such as they are, were never intended to be more fun or more rewarding than the plethora of alternatives that women have today.

my sister doesn’t have kids. She can essentially do what she likes, when she likes, as she likes and she considers no one but herself when choosing. There’s no question that her life is more ‘fun’ and vastly easier than mine - it obviously is. More money, less stress, more holidays, no responsibilities, more freedom. But it’s not a fair competition.

Years ago I knew a woman who would not have children because she thought she could not bring them into the world as it was: it has of course got very much worse since then. She wasn’t being selfish.

I don’t have children because I did not feel able to be a single parent.

Neither of those choices was easy.

Many people believe in near term human extinction and decide not to breed in order to avoid exposing their children to what they believe is happening. Others are devastated at what humanity has done to the natural world and know that the greatest action to reduce the effects is not to reproduce.

People who choose to reproduce always do so for personal and self centred reasons.

You did not owe it to the world to reproduce @Wallywonker72 and I cordially invite you to wind your neck back in.

Brunchatstephanies · 03/06/2026 13:08

The primitive joys of motherhood, such as they are, were never intended to be more fun or more rewarding than the plethora of alternatives that women have today.

The biological drive is sex though not necessarily reproducing. The bi-product of sex is reproduction. I think everything we saw in the past around the hardships young girls, young women and women suffered often after being forced into arranged marriages, they were told that having children would be their reward - it is now clear that to a degree that was an instrument of the patriarchal culture who knew what was best for women.

Everywhere women are given choices not to have children a rising number are choosing not to. I love being a mother and DH loves being a father. I’d absolutely go back and do it all over again but I can completely understand why young women are opting out.

Swissmeringue · 03/06/2026 13:25

This world is a better place to have children than at any time in human history. We are very unlikely to die in childbirth, our children are vanishingly unlikely to die in childhood. We have warm homes and hot water and plumbing and antibiotics and women can vote and own property and earn money and have their own bank accounts. There's always a direct inverse correlation between education and earnings potential in women, and birth rates. In short, educated and independent women choose to have fewer children. I'm a big fan of living in a world where women have that choice.

I'm pregnant with my third (and last). So I'm definitely not against having babies! I'd love to see more family friendly policies, better maternity care and equal parenting expectations for me and women. But I don't think those things would change the birthrate.

BorisJohnsonsUnderpants · 03/06/2026 13:29

This trend is evident in my own family.
After WW2, there was so much hope and optimism for a better future.

My two siblings and I are "baby boomers". We all married young, in our late teens and very early twenties, as was commonplace at the time. Between us we have 7 adult children, and from those 7 adult children just 5 children have been born from 3 out of the 7. And there will likely be no more, as most of the adult children are now in their 40s and have no desire to become parents.

Not only has the optimism of earlier decades ended but people's expectations and aspirations have changed. As a teenager, all I (and a great many of my peers) truly aspired to was marriage and motherhood. I left school at 18 and got married soon afterwards. I didn't go to university and didn't train for a career.

All but one of my children's generation went to university and most of them have travelled extensively, living and working overseas. Their horizons are so much broader than mine were. Having a family just doesn't fit in with their chosen lifestyles.

MaturingCheeseball · 03/06/2026 13:37

whirlyhead · 03/06/2026 12:12

I'm in my 50s now, but even in my 20s having children made no sense to me, socially or environmentally, so I didn't have any. Also, it looks absolutely no fun and a great deal of stress! I appreciate we need children to support older people, but fewer children born now will lead to fewer pensioners in the future so at some stage it will even out (with a few decades of misery!)

We really need to embrace immigration as there are plenty of people in the world already, with more people likely to become environmental migrants in the future, so we just need to shuffle people around.

Nice one. You will be gone, but are happy for millions of low-skilled net takers to be “shuffled” here.

Meadowfinch · 03/06/2026 13:43

Anywhere that women have a choice, birth rates are dropping. My gm had 12 dcs, my dm had 6 dcs, I have one dc. My siblings have either 1 or 2 dcs. The reasons are simple.

  • Women now have a choice whether to have a family
  • Many women don't want the physical harm of multiple births
  • Many women study and/or travel before they settle down so start later
  • Many women have a career
  • Cost of housing
  • Cost of childcare
  • Cost of maternity leave
  • Cost of giving children a happy childhood
  • The risk of being left with multiple children, when man leaves

I'm a single mum with one child. I've been able to give him a decent home, my love and attention, a good education, support in going to uni. Things I did not have.

I would have liked a second child but the reality is I could not have provided the same quality of life for two children.

chickenss · 03/06/2026 13:44

Clearbelle · 03/06/2026 10:41

Certainly from my family, friends and neighbours and just people I know, the responsible decent people are having less children or none at all whilst the irresponsible, shittier ones seem to be having plenty 🫤

Yep. Which makes you worry about the future. It is the opposite of the survival of the ‘fittest’ (if fittest meant responsible, decent, emotionally intelligent).

fjwtrewoth · 03/06/2026 13:47

DeftGoldHedgehog · 03/06/2026 11:18

I don't think 720, 1380, 1750, or even 1971 were particular nice times to bring children into. The difference is, women have a lot more choices now.

Still, the world population is 8.3 billion and half of them are under 30. In a number of countries, women still don't have great choices.

Edited

Exactly. I think "the world being not nice" is a nonsense argument. Things haven't been better, especially for women, ever. It's media peddling Doomism, and young people lapping it up, as usual.

MrsPapillon · 03/06/2026 13:49

SparklyHam · 03/06/2026 11:26

It really hasn't.

Parenting now is easier than it's ever been as you have control over the number of DC, cars, modern technology, the benefits system, schools etc.

What's changed is the rise of the Internet and social media that people seem unable to ignore.

And the rise of the Internet and social media where people tell each other just how hard parenting is.

I disagree. I think parenting is much harder for modern-day mums. I really don’t know how they cope. When I had mine 30 years ago, it was perfectly acceptable to put them upstairs in their cot for a nap while you had a shower or did some housework. These days you have to be with them constantly. If they cry you can’t put them down, so you’re expected to carry them round in a sling all day.

As they get older, you’re expected not to let them encounter the slightest distress or disappointment, lest they be psychologically ‘traumatised’ by even the most minor upset. Almost every second of their free time is stage-managed and coordinated to keep them entertained constantly.

I would never have children these days when people’s expectations of mothers are so ludicrously high. I wouldn’t last a day!

Monty36 · 03/06/2026 13:57

TheThunderRolls · 03/06/2026 10:55

Is this the same BBC that promotes David Attenborough who says the world is overpopulated? I can't make up my mind if we're too many or too few.

It is overpopulated. Some of the issues we have are because we use far too many of the planets raw materials. And we use them to the degree we do because there are so many of us. Across the whole world.
We dig up the earth, pollute it, do not respect other species that live with us on this planet.
I am feeling pessimistic today and feel that it is too late. We have trashed the world and the Mother Earth will let us know how she feels about it sooner rather than later.

Peonies12 · 03/06/2026 13:58

Good, and hopefully the trend will continue

lavenderscenteddrawerliners · 03/06/2026 13:58

Until several years ago I could not understand those who said this life is too awful to bring kids into. We were never wealthy but always felt like we had enough, lived in the same private rental in a very MC area for 10 years (with no rent increase) and a budget holiday every year. Landlord told us he had to sell, life went completely upside down since. We couldn't secure another rental property, the competition at each viewing was mad, was viewing about 3 per week for months and never got anything. The price has skyrocketed, we became officially homeless and have moved between short term rentals of 3-6 months in awful areas. I'm living in an area where things that I've never seen/heard in my life are just normal here. Drug use, antisocial behaviour, parents swearing at babies in buggies, kids swearing at parents. It really has given me a completely different angle on life and I've realized life for some is really awful.

Erin1975 · 03/06/2026 14:06

TheThunderRolls · 03/06/2026 10:55

Is this the same BBC that promotes David Attenborough who says the world is overpopulated? I can't make up my mind if we're too many or too few.

There are without doubt too many humans on the planet. 50 years ago there were 5 billion. It's now something like 8.3 billion and rising at a steady rate.

We are at plague proportions on this planet.

Badbadbunny · 03/06/2026 14:15

SparklyHam · 03/06/2026 11:26

It really hasn't.

Parenting now is easier than it's ever been as you have control over the number of DC, cars, modern technology, the benefits system, schools etc.

What's changed is the rise of the Internet and social media that people seem unable to ignore.

And the rise of the Internet and social media where people tell each other just how hard parenting is.

It's different, but not easier.

Typically both parents now need to work, often both having to work full time. A few decades ago, many mothers were SAHM and many were part time. House price inflation and other inflationary pressures have caused this. Of course, being a parent is going to be harder if you're out at work for several hours per day and need things that SAHM don't such as wraparound care, driving kids to/from school, paying for childcare costs, etc.

The drain of decent jobs into London mean more than ever people need to move away from their home towns just to get decent jobs, so they lose their family backup for support/childcare, etc. Fewer and fewer people now have "Aunt Mabel" living round the corner to call on in case help/support is needed.

The requirement to work has led people to decide not to have children or to have fewer children. Of course, those living on benefits don't have this problem as they're not going out to work, not having to take/bring kids to/from school by car, getting subsidised housing etc. That's why workers are having fewer kids but benefit claimants havn't seen the same drop in birth numbers.

Gone are the days when there were local schools. Lots of smaller schools have closed down and been merged into bigger schools, typically no longer in walking distance of lots of peoples' homes, meaning car transport is required to/from, at virtually the same time as most work places start/finishing times so causing stress and extra congestion (also causing stress).

Cost of childcare is ruinously expensive. Now it's mostly private firms, they charge more for the "profit" element, whereas a few decades ago, childcare was often from the local council so was effectively priced "at cost", therefore much cheaper.

As for when kids are older, jobs were far easier to find for school kids and school leavers. There were "corner" shops everywhere, milkmen, pop vans, cafes, boarding houses, etc., all of whom would often have "Saturday" girl/boy jobs for the busiest day of the week, or early morning/evening delivery rounds, or boarding house cleaning/room change jobs during the holidays etc. Pubs/restaurants had "pot washers" and other low skilled jobs for youngsters to earn a bit of pocket money and set them up for "proper" jobs in the future. All that's gone now that everything is "big business". Supermarkets, chain restaurants, Amazon warehouses, Travelodge, etc don't take on "Saturday girls" nor school kids during school holidays. Of course, the H&S regulations make that worse as we now have age restrictions for particular kinds of work and requirements for council permission on a "person" basis before you can employ a school kid. That has led to some of the social exclusion, mental health, inability to function in a workplace, problems as having a "bit job" was a rite of passage for most youngsters a few decades ago, but now they're sat in their bedrooms isolated from human contact. In turn that causes stress/anxiety for parents and means lots don't "launch" and stay at home longer. That background leads to people having another reason not to have kids.

And that's only my first few thoughts. I could go on.! (Please don't you say!).

NoisyHiker · 03/06/2026 14:18

Clearbelle · 03/06/2026 10:41

Certainly from my family, friends and neighbours and just people I know, the responsible decent people are having less children or none at all whilst the irresponsible, shittier ones seem to be having plenty 🫤

I never realised at the time that the film 'Idiocracy' was prophetic.

The future is bleak.

Parents who can raise well functioning members of society should be given incentives and help to make it easier.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2026 14:24

fjwtrewoth · 03/06/2026 13:47

Exactly. I think "the world being not nice" is a nonsense argument. Things haven't been better, especially for women, ever. It's media peddling Doomism, and young people lapping it up, as usual.

Still that doesn’t mean women have to have more dc.

It’s good that social pressure is reducing.

These stories usually have a how terrible feel to them, but maybe it’s good that the population won’t just keep going up.

Monty36 · 03/06/2026 14:24

Quite apart from the planet and environmental disasters yet to occur but largely inevitable, the UK in particular is a mess of a country. And frankly lost.
The world appears to be likewise. I am glad I am the age I am.

Badbadbunny · 03/06/2026 14:25

@BorisJohnsonsUnderpants

Re hope and optimism, I agree. I wasn't born that young, but caught the end of the "boomer" years and grew up in the 70s, and a teenager in the 80s. Everything was fun and optimistic. As a child we all played out together, most of us had "Mums" at home, so we could come and go as we pleased, in/out of each other houses/gardens, running to the playpark/fields to play ball games, out for hours on our bikes, etc. In later teenage years, it was all school discos, evening "teen" discos, shopping every Saturday, then when old enough, it was pubs and clubs. Everyone knew everyone, not just from the same school, but other schools, and we all knew each other's elder/younger siblings. There was a real community. And yes, it was fun. We almost all had jobs, either Saturdays, morning paper rounds, holiday jobs in boarding houses and shops, etc., so our "network" expanded that way too through people we met at work, not just work colleagues (obviously usually older), but customers, etc. We basically "had to" be social, friendly, communicative, etc. There was no internet to hide behind and staying in your bedroom was boring when there was an entire community playing/socialising outside. None of us were stressed/anxious about our futures - we knew things would be OK - yes, we knew we may not get the "perfect" job, but we knew we'd get "a job" and once you had your foot in the door, you had opportunities to work up or shift sideways to other jobs once you'd gained experience/skills etc. Now, everything is doom and gloom. Maybe not always justified, but things are simply not like that anymore. I really think I just caught the last of the "optimistic" years.

Badbadbunny · 03/06/2026 14:26

NoisyHiker · 03/06/2026 14:18

I never realised at the time that the film 'Idiocracy' was prophetic.

The future is bleak.

Parents who can raise well functioning members of society should be given incentives and help to make it easier.

Yet the incentives and support often seem to be geared more towards the ones we don't want to be reproducing!

daffodilandtulip · 03/06/2026 14:28

I wouldn’t have children now unless I could afford private education and private healthcare.

Swipe left for the next trending thread