Education is the right of every child

[Cheeseandolivesplease]

What should be done when this isn't the case? Perhaps when parents/carers don't support this right?
I've been in education (SEND Specialism) for well over twenty years and I still don't have the answers.
I am not referring to those parents with whom I absolutely emphasise - those parents that are trying their absolute best to get their child to school/a place of learning and I fully appreciate that mainstream isn't the right place for all learners.
But what about those who really don't try to facilitate any form of learning at the detriment of their child?
I wish I had the answers to make this right 😕

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream What about not ensuring the child is at home when provision is arranged, that sort of thing? What then?

Then we are back at the LA should look at the ‘why’. For example, I know parents who have actively ensured their DC isn’t at home at times when provision the LA has provided. They have done that because the provision/provider isn’t suitable &/or home provision isn’t what the LA/child needs/wants and the LA isn’t listening.

You might EHE, but most with an understanding of the SEN system wouldn’t EHE because they know if you EHE the LA doesn’t have a responsibility to provide provision, so it wouldn’t be a matter of EHEing until provision was put in place, and the LA would have even less reason to concede an EHCP appeal.

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream At this point I disagree. If sound support is offered within the child's home but, for example, the child goes shopping consistently at that time, isn't that the responsibility of the parent to at least encourage initial engagement? Or still of the LA? LAs who are already desperately strapped for money and staff. Where does parental responsibility come in?

Yes, I still think the LA needs to look at why. For example, it could be part of the child’s restrictive routine and the only time of day they willingly leave the house. Another example, it could be the parent is making sure they are out of the house because the house is the child’s safe place and having professionals in it isn’t appropriate for their needs.

Your definition of ‘sound support’ may not be aligned with what support is actually required.

You don’t actually know the parent isn’t encouraging. If they aren’t, neither do you know whether they aren’t because such encouragement wouldn’t be beneficial/cause more anxiety, or if they aren’t because they know the whole/when/when/where/how isn’t suitable.

How much experience with EOTAS/EOTIS do you have? How long have you been an EOTAS/EOTIS tutor for? If you are the poster who has repeatedly posted about being an EOTAS tutor before, then you don’t actually have that much EOTAS experience and that is showing.

Not really as she needs a theraputic approach to deal with her health issues and trauma and gain confidence being outside the house and with other adults. She is in a position to start a small amount of interest lead non structured learning but I think of that as just parenting.

The council have no position other than blaming different departments.

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream The LA offer both morning and afternoon sessions to suit to combat your argument re time of day, for example. Often it is changed upon request but with no improvement. In addition, support isn't just offered within the home. There is a lot of "bending" to accommodate.
But there simply isn't a limitless pot.

Dd has missed two years of compulsory school age education whilst we waited for SENDIST. I had to fight to get LA to provide S19 whilst we waited the first time.It was largely a waste of time but I facilitated it regardless. Tutor we had that LA paid that service £95ph brought worksheets that dd could have completed in Primary until the point where dd refused then she played Scrabble each session instead(Beat the tutor every time). Dd taught herself Japanese though instead.
Second time I didn't bother fighting for S19 after previous experience instead I complained after SENDIST and LA paid me £6k for failing to make provision. Dd pursued her interests continued with Japanese and took up watercolour painting.
She now has EOTAS it works for dd,she studies what interests her. I prefer it when I don't hear from LA as usually any involvement from them causes issues I end up sorting out.

• *The LA offer both morning and afternoon sessions

LAs regularly refuse to provide provision at certain times. Even when they do offer morning and afternoon times what about other times? For example, evenings and/or weekends. Despite what LAs claim, EOTAS/EOTIS provision does not have to be during normal school hours.

You may not have come across it, but there are cases where LAs refuse to provide provision outside the home. So much so, there is even case law now saying parents can’t be forced to accept home provision. Yet LAs still try.

But there simply isn't a limitless pot.

SEP is based on needs, not what money the LA wants to spend. Done properly EOTAS/EOTIS can be incredibly expensive, but that isn’t a barrier.

Is it because they don’t think the AP provided is suitable/valuable? Is it because the child themself is refusing to attend? I’d wager that in most cases, there’s more to it than the parent just being ‘not interested’. Apart from anything else, surely they don’t want their child at home under their feet all day?

How old are these children? The parents could be encouraging involvement but the child is refusing to engage. They can’t lock their child in the house.

If these are teens then they may well be trying to ensure the child is at home, but the child is leaving the home regardless.

@TotalBaloney Anywhere from 4 to 18. Obviously the younger children are out with parents.

This thread really reminds me of an EOTAS tutor we had who had no real understanding of the needs of my bright but highly anxious child.

My child couldn't engage in sessions with him because he was so dry in his teaching methods and my child was traumatised by formal education.

He probably thought, just like you do, that I didn't make effort to ensure he 'attended' those sessions and the relationship broke down between us.

He'd probably be flabbergasted that the child of a feckless parent like me has just completed his second year at UCL having gained 3 A* at A level.

@lifeturnsonadime I assume he attempted initial engagement, however?

No, he wouldn't leave his bedroom at the time and I didn't make him.

To be clear he did eventually come down & was shown worksheets and did engage to a degree. But if he didn't want to on a given day I didn't force him.

We had to undo the trauma not add to it.

@lifeturnsonadime Sorry - I'm confused. So how did you figure out the tutor was "dry in his teaching methods"?

I’d probably take my autistic 7 year old out if they were insisting on at home educational provision as he’d find it highly distressing. He won’t even look at his school reading book at home because school is for work and home is absolutely not.

Just clarified.

My point is I didn't make my child engage. So like you he would have thought I was not facilitating.

He didn't get children with trauma based sen and wasn't prepared to be flexible.

My child did eventually engaged with a brilliant English teacher who was prepared to actually get to know him and wasn't forcing education at the cost of his mental health. She understood that if I said he couldn't do it today I knew my child best. She is still in touch with him and me now.

@TotalBaloney As in the LA initially suggested home provision?

@lifeturnsonadime I completely agree with your posts. Your DS has done amazingly.

@Cheeseandolivesplease I am involved in the recruitment of staff for DS1&3’s EOTAS/EOTIS packages. No-one works with DSs without my agreement. For us, a person’s teaching methods are part of the initial discussion and then the interview. I would know if someone was ‘dry in his teaching methods’ without ever having seen them teach.

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream Do you employ them on a private basis or LA funded?

@scoopofmintchocchipicecream thank you.

I learnt from that experience. After the failed attempt I also sourced the maths and english tutors. DS self taught his other GCSEs.

I really struggle to accept it is the parents of SEN children who are failing them. It's such an absurd suggestion. It's our children who are being failed. Often to the detriment of our lives/ jobs/ mental health.

@lifeturnsonadime As I said in my initial post, not ALL parents. But yes, some.
Still, easy to blame the LA and the provision offered in every circumstance.

All staff that are part of DS1&3’s EOTAS/EOTIS packages are funded by the LA. We have PBs. Other than one AP DS3 goes to 2 days a week, the rest is funded via DPs. Some are employed by us (but funded by the LA) and some are self-employed.