Education is the right of every child

[Cheeseandolivesplease]

What should be done when this isn't the case? Perhaps when parents/carers don't support this right?
I've been in education (SEND Specialism) for well over twenty years and I still don't have the answers.
I am not referring to those parents with whom I absolutely emphasise - those parents that are trying their absolute best to get their child to school/a place of learning and I fully appreciate that mainstream isn't the right place for all learners.
But what about those who really don't try to facilitate any form of learning at the detriment of their child?
I wish I had the answers to make this right 😕

What 'education' is being provided for some of these children at school though? You have non verbal children who dont have access to alternative communication methods and even if they are lucky enough to have access teachers and support staff arent trained or children are forced to use methods that they don't know because a staff member is more comfortable with that. They go to school, sit there, leaning nothing as it's not accessible and become frustrated. Of course the schools say they are the problem. Local authorities dont enforce ehcps. They ignore parents until placements breakdown and they refuse any support whilst children are out of education. It's a complex issue and its easy to blame parents who often find themselves in this position through no fault of their own.

Begs the question then whether the education system is right then doesn't it?

Why are you blaming parents for the failure of the education system? Mist SEN parents have earned the right to cynicism

For me education is about using your brain as part of a system of good health. But actually the state SEN provision often has no clue at all what its doing or indeed why its doing it.

@Gingerbreadlattetoppingsontheside Because, put simply, I am referring to those parents who do not facilitate, or even support/allow, any form of learning for their child whatsoever.
If you have children, I assume they are in education of some description?

I have no answers. As a parent of 3 children age almost 20, 15 and 14, they come home with more questions about the point of what they’re being taught than the interest in it at all. I genuinely feel mine have learned more through travel, my own life experiences, out of classroom stuff that will be far more relevant in years to come. I do feel children of all creeds and colours have a right to an education but it needs to fundamentally be educational and not just ‘because’. It amazes me how they are taught these days and my kids go to an apparently outstanding grammar school.

That isn’t what I said. I said the reasons why need identifying without attaching blame and judgement.

You can’t resolve the situation whilst attaching parental blame. You can’t work with the CYP and their family whilst judging them and pushing them away. You can’t work towards engagement without understanding the why and making changes to how/when/who/where works with the child. You can’t work with the family without understanding the wider context and history. You can’t achieve engagement without understanding the trauma and likely parent carer burnout. You won’t secure engagement without a comprehensive assessment (not the cursory, vague assessments LAs often undertake) by an MDT in order to identify the child’s needs and what they require. You won’t secure engagement without the LA focusing on what is actually required rather than what they would like to provide, their preferred providers, their own (often unlawful) policies, passing the buck or saving money.

If the child cannot engage with the AP offered, it isn’t suitable and therefore the LA needs to provide provision that is suitable to comply with their duties.

No it isn't, there are some children with SEND for whom no suitable place has yet been found. This is partly because LAs try to restrict the number of pupils they have to pay to be educated out of area. Those children spend their days at home, with a parent who is probably ill-equipped to teach them.

@BeMellowAquaSquid But you, as a a parent, have facilitated that education and those experiences. Unfortunately this isn't always happening.

I thought there were more places than children.

I highly doubt this exists, except perhaps in cases where the parents have profound problems, mental illness or addiction issues and are already experiencing underlying deep dysfunction.

@TightlyLacedCorset It absolutely exists; more than most would wish to believe.

Yes. But if I'm brutally honest I only half support it.

Does it represent value for money to the state, absolutely not!!! My son will never work or be employed. No education will ever change that. If that is the started goal of education it is predestined to fail. If i was paying for it for my son I wouldn't pay for it myself.

However he enjoys it and for a few years yet hes still entitled to it so thats a win.

For clarity I'm a SEN parent of a child that has experience of everything from mainstream to Eotas. I've also taught in pretty much all areas of the msinstream and sen system.

Whether the goal is learning for joy of learning, learning for employability or learning for independence, its not hard to see how often education fails

@Gingerbreadlattetoppingsontheside I see what you are saying regarding your son.
But that of course does not mean that all children currently not in education are unable to ever work or be employed.

Are you saying there are well functioning, stable parents out there who are feeding, caring for and raising their children, who have absolutely no interest at all in facilitating or providing their children an education 'of no description' to quote you at all?

I say that is absolutely improbable. Any such parents are likely to be overwhelmed, dysfunctional, or dealing with a profound problem.

@TightlyLacedCorset Perhaps they just don't see the value of an education?

But statistically that is the most likely scenario whether they have capacity for employment or not.

If the goal is employability, Statistically education fails waaaay more often than it succeed.

And seriously how have you had experience in SEN and not encountered significant numbers Of children who not only are unlikely to ever be employed and will also need significant life long care to access the most basic tasks?

Who do you think will be doing the bulk of the lifelong care in MANY of these cases? If education doesn't support parents, indeed makes their job harder, why would they support education.

Even more so if they have to fight for it to achieve anything

Indeed why would they support education for employability which to them might be very obviously not going to do anything for employability.

That is obviously assuming the sole purpose of education is employability. And that is a matter for huge debate

@Gingerbreadlattetoppingsontheside Again, SEND is a huge umbrella term and lots of the students I work with will be able to find employment in the future. ADHD learners, as just one example - many adults with ADHD are of course in work.

Then why would they have AP? I think they'd just deregister and save themselves the hassle that comes with securing AP/EOTAS. It takes an immense amount of effort to get ap/eotas. No one who doesn't value education is going to go through that unnecessarily

@RudolphTheReindeer Not always.

In all the times I have worked in education I have never seen this except in cases where the situation was as I stated. Where the parents were coming from pretty dysfunctional backgrounds themselves, had few parenting tools, were clueless about what facilitation even looked like, or had addiction or mental health issues or their own disabilities where they relied on the child inappropriately etc. It's not natural for a parent to not ever facilitate or support their children's education. There is always an issue. And from experience parents with children with SEN often feel coerced, or misunderstood and not helped by the system which is bloody tough for some to negotiate.

Leaving aside the Sen aspect for the moment.

Take the maths curriculum for example. Most people will never need to do Pythagoras. If you don't you can take a screenshot on your phone and get the correct answer with a higher percentage of accuracy that some people realistically will achieve, and we spend years in school telling people this is essential knowledge. If you need that knowledge in a place of work you will have access to technology that will assist you. Education does not meet reality

We tell kids if you can do your times tables, you wont get anywhere in maths, yet we do now carry a calculator around with us in our pocket that will do times tables quicker than a human in very many cases.

If the goal of education is employability, why are so many university graduates struggling to find work? At no financial premium for having the degree.

If learning for learning sake, why are we forcing kids to do subjects they may never do well in. The ever increasing numbers of kids doing gcse math and English retakes are testament for this

Education is devaluing itself currently because atm it doesn't know what its endgame is. And its failing

When I go to a SENCO in a big successful school and they don't even know that a specialist calculator app for dyscalcula exists, and provision can be made for it to be used in exams, let alone made this standard practice for their kids with dyslexia, its hard not to see how SEN education isn't failing at even the most basic level.

And we are surprised that parents on the coal face are jaded?

@TightlyLacedCorset I imagine if there are no working members within a family it is also harder for them to value employment for their children too.

Do you understand how parents get Eotas or AP?

To get Eotas, thanks to case law, you have to show that no appropriate provision exists.

Think about that child has to have been turned down by every type of provision. Or the parent has to have documented by education that no provision can provide an ADEQUATE education.

( Not even good. No child legally has the right to a good education. Just an adequate one)

That's a huge amount of work. Or horrifically dispiriting. Or both.

Admittedly AP can be simply a failure of CAMHs. or that conceptually we can only imagine education being achieved in a traditional school when its actually really counterproductive for a child who struggles with socialisation to mix education and socialization. Is sounds like your experience fails into this categories

Yes I imagine you would be correct about that. I have seen that

But as I said, there are probably also underlying systemic issues that are not being accounted for.

@Gingerbreadlattetoppingsontheside Such processes aren't always done by parents.

I agree with a lot of this. Some of the children I have seen do well were asymmetrical or tunnel vision learners. They had a passionate interest in one subject but were failures in English and Stem at least on paper.

My Uncles son has autism and only enjoyed domestic science in school. He went into catering at college and he is now a chef working in hotels and residential homes and has never, and I mean NEVER been out of work, he didn't miss a day during COVID. I don't think he'd know what Pythagoras theorem was if I asked him.