Should my 14-year-old be paid for helping at holiday camps?

[aimee41]

Dd 14 has been doing a hobby for 8 years now and has recently been asked to help at holiday camps. The children attending pay £40 a day to attend. There is obviously hall hire but no other expenses for the coach. When dd was asked to help last time we didn’t ask re payment, I guess we hoped the coach would offer.
Dd has now been asked again. On the one hand she would do it for free, but I don’t want her exploited. There are sometimes other helpers but they are older and help in regular classes and I am pretty sure get paid. Then there are other volunteers but these are mostly mothers running refreshments stands at particular events, not teaching children. Has anyone else experience of this? Thank you

My daughter would love this opportunity for the experience and wouldn’t expect to get paid (she’s 13 and dances every day)

If you volunteer for something you generally have flexibility on your hours and limited responsibility. If she is being given strict times, then it begins to sound as if the activities could not run without her - in which case she should be paid, even if it's at a low rate. If she is actually instructing or supervising other students in a physical activity, I would be wary of the insurance implications.
As a parent I would be having a conversation with the dance instructor to clarify this.

For 14 year olds you can only work 4 hours then you must gave at least a 1 hour break then I think it’s a max of 5 hours per day. If the teacher is running it as an all day thing with a quick break for lunch then obviously it’d fall foul of the rules.

I would say she still deserves something for her time. A discount on classes, a couple of 1-1 sessions, a bit of kit she’s hankering after, a thank you gift voucher type stuff. That said my kids have volunteered in the past for stuff like this and used it as the community element of their DoE.

It is very common for dance schools to ask their older students to 'help out' with the younger ones during classes and holiday courses. But they should definitely not be doing any actual teaching or be left to supervise classes without a qualified adult present. Many teens are interested in a career in the performing arts, and would welcome the opportunity to gain the experience, which would stand them in good stead should they decide to train as dance teachers themselves.

But if the school is deliberately doing it because they need to have a certain number of staff per students on the course, and are avoiding having to pay wages to adults, then be wary.

My dd similar age started to volunteer at a the junior class of her martial arts club. She enjoys it; good cv points and she is learning how to supervise children and have authority and confidence. Because it’s a physical activity I don’t think insurance allows her to be paid on the books as a junior instructor? Maybe same with dance.

I explained to her that when she is 16 and competing for summer or part time jobs, the fact she has a reference and has been teaching reliably for years will go a long way to help her secure that first chance at a paid job.

So that’s 3 days / 6 hours each day? So 18 hours in total?

I do think that there should be some compensation. Some free or reduced in fee classes, use of training space or a little cash.

She wouldn’t be volunteering for a charity. This is somebody’s business. And whilst 18 hours really isn’t a lot she’d still be providing free labour!

Does your DD get written references or recommendations?

I used to do similar. But there were still some benefits apart from “the experience”. Getting to attend some additional classes (for free) in my case.

well, I did provide free labour in regards to church / church camps. But that’s a different kettle of fish 😅

The model of older girls helping as volunteers was what our local dance school did.
If she asks for payment then she’d need to be an employee and I think under 16 need council permit etc.
It’s good experience for cv. My dd was a guide young leader (all guide leaders are volunteers) and leader did her a ref for her first paid job at 16. She also used her volunteer experience to get paid role at camp America at 18 working with kids.
Kids with good experience on cv like this are the ones getting apprenticeships and jobs.

I would request a discount on her fees for next term, and give DD the equivalent of the discount.

During my teens I spent every waking moment of my school holidays at the local riding school. I mucked out endless stables, groomed numerous horses, cleaned acres of tack, you name it, I did it. Why? Because I was obsessed with horses and would rather have been there than anywhere else. I also learned a huge amount, and by watching the instructors teach classes, I learned to teach too. We were paid in free rides.

Teen dance students used as helpers at dance schools for a holiday course like this will probably be learning the choreography and then demonstrating the steps at the front of the dancers so everyone can copy them, going over the steps in detail with anyone who is struggling to master it; and helping with crowd control. 😁

This^
friend’s daughter did similar at her dance club but as a part of DoE award so it worked for everyone. She also liked it and it gave her sense of achievement.
I think when you teach DD value herself sometimes it’s not only about direct financial gain. So if your DD will take something else out of it it still counts.

Volunteering is not exploitative, you can choose to do it or not. Just let the organiser know if she doesn't want to do it. A 14 year old is not entitled to the minimum wage even of a 16 year old. She should be learning about giving back and gaining skills. Once she's 16 she could probably take some assistant teacher qualifications. Or do swimming coaching or lifeguarding, she will have gained useful skills for job hunting.

This. I did the same and was effectively free pony mad labour for the stables in all weathers.

But I did get something from it [aside from the experience and training all of which I have long forgotten unfortunately. A horse of my own was never going to be in my future] - lots of additional free lessons/hacks and considerable additional trust as time went on to go out unsupervised. In a dance school I'm not sure what those opportunities are, maybe it's goodwill to be transported to big competitions or additional free coaching but as a parent now I am wary of my kids being exploited unfairly when they are young and naive. I'd have no issue with it if the experience and training in it led to a paid summer position when old enough for example albeit 3 days out of a week's holiday is a big commitment.

Volunteering for a charity like scouts where the adults are also in the main unpaid volunteers is a completely different beast.

I didn’t mean no regular commitment, I meant that three six hour shifts out of a four day half term is a lot.

As I said in my post before that, I wondered if she were being used instead of a paid staff member (she surely isn’t in the quota for adult child ratios) and should be an ‘extra’ in staffing.

Is she doing DofE? Local teenagers are always looking for voluntary jobs. Worth including it on her CV.

Can she say she wants to get a job so needs to focus on this and see if they offer?

It's certainly good experience, but very cheeky of the owner not to offer vouchers or some form of incentive. You just don't do that (or at least, you shouldn't).

I just checked out of interest and all of the teenage helpers at the younger kids' dance classes are volunteers and don't count in ratios. The teachers have to be adults and the teenagers are there to benefit themselves as well as the children. My daughter would absolutely love to be selected for this when she's a bit older. Once they have their own classes (I think at 18 they can), then they are of course paid roles but for a few days during a holiday club it's definitely unpaid.

Blimey. Minimum wage isn't even £8ph.

I'm not sure £10ph for a 14 year old 'helping' at dance camp is a reasonable ask.

I agree £10 is a lot for a 14 yr old helper. Min wage for 16 or 17 is £8.

It wouldn’t be very believable for a 14 year old though

I would not be happy with DC working 6 hour days for nothing. Despite the benefits of volunteering etc. My DC is helping out at the local tennis club summer camp - 2 hours each day for 5 days. They get a drink each day provided, £20 voucher from local sports store at the end of the week to say thanks, and it counts towards volunteer hours for their DofE.

Even if they are 18, they should not be taking classes unsupervised without any teaching qualifications. They need to know anatomy and physiology, child development, both physical and mental, and have a thorough knowledge and understanding of the syllabus being taught at each level. Not to mention health & safety, first aid, emergency procedure and having DBS clearance.

Yes she should be paid something, I’m surprised people think otherwise. I think though that it would have to be more like a gift rather than an hourly rate as there are strict rules around under 16s working. But I’m pretty sure during school holiday times they can work a certain number of hours and get paid.

We really need to get more teens working / appreciating the value of pay and jobs. She’s got a great skill that the coach should be willing to pay her for, not take advantage! In other countries it’s really normal for younger teenagers to be working and getting paid for it.

Or what about the value of giving back to the Community ?

My dc, when they were small, benefitted from people giving their time and sharing their skills for free (teens helping sports coaches, older teens from the swimming club supporting beginners in the water, Young Leaders at Cubs, etc), and when they became teens, they volunteered and helped younger children in the same way.

1. They actually enjoyed doing it
2. They learned skills to do with coaching / teaching / dealing with problems that cropped up
3. They gained experience for their CVs, and none of them have ever had difficulties getting jobs in the 6th form or as students - quite different from all the threads you read on here where people say their dc apply for jobs and never get them
4. Yes, it sounds a bit cheesy, but they got to 'give back' or 'pay forward' the time that other volunteers had given which enabled them to do activities as children.
5. Two of mine got other work from parents who saw how good they had been with the children at the voluntary activity (one got babysitting work, the other was asked to help run children's parties, and got paid for that)

Edited as I just remembered the 5th one