Should my 14-year-old be paid for helping at holiday camps?

[aimee41]

Dd 14 has been doing a hobby for 8 years now and has recently been asked to help at holiday camps. The children attending pay £40 a day to attend. There is obviously hall hire but no other expenses for the coach. When dd was asked to help last time we didn’t ask re payment, I guess we hoped the coach would offer.
Dd has now been asked again. On the one hand she would do it for free, but I don’t want her exploited. There are sometimes other helpers but they are older and help in regular classes and I am pretty sure get paid. Then there are other volunteers but these are mostly mothers running refreshments stands at particular events, not teaching children. Has anyone else experience of this? Thank you

I think it’s a really good thing for youngsters to volunteer their time in this way: it does so much for their personal development and self-esteem. If you can’t do anything for your community without a pay-off, think about how useful it’ll be for job applications and UCAS.

Just hire of halls...and maybe some insurance...
and the cost of the music licensing she has to pay for annually (eye watering)
cost of membership to governing body
cost of safeguarding/first aid training/mandatory other training
cost of music bought or sunscription
the hours spent planning classes
hours spent choreographing dances
hours spent sourcing costumes/music/uniform
hours spent on admin
hours spent chasing parents for varying things
hours spent messaging parents
writing references for nearly every teenager who attends who applies for a job
Writing statements to support children having assesments
sending off for exams/comps ensuring every child with special adjustments has the correct info written down with supporting evidence.

yes, they might have £1000 coming in for one days work but I guarantee you the amount of hours you don't see that are spent working will be huge.

if your child has an interest in dance, they will enjoy this, and it helps teach them many many skills. The teacher isn't trying to exploit your child. Dance classes and many other hobbies rely on more experienced members assisting because it allows the instructor to give all attendees the best possible experience and in a lot of cases employing another teacher or assistant isn't financially feasible. That's without going into all the associated costs of employing someone because we all know it's not a case of handing them an envelope with cash in anymore.

My sister runs these sort of camps for a different activity. Think in the region of 40 kids between 5-12 in a large hall
Her teen "volunteers" are all paid for their time, even her own kids. She literally couldn't run the paid for camp activity without helpers.

I wouldn't feel awkward about asking in the slightest. The teacher will either
> find another sucker in which case you know she is just a user,
> limit the hours right down and call it helping out in which case your child can have some fun in her half term with her friends
> pay her either in free dance lessons which is an easy give, cash or gift card.

Find another sucker is really harsh,

This is a volunteering opportunity. If DD wants to volunteer, great. If she wants to only do one of the three days, great. If she doesn’t want to do it, again, great, she says no.

Your DD needs to make it clear that she is not available or willing to work 3, 6 hour shifts. She should not be counted in ratios or act as a second person as she is underage.

As a volunteer the easiest way to manage this is to volunteer for ‘odd hours’ - half a day, a couple of hours to suit.

This means the owner of the business would need to employ a person to cover ratios etc. Your daughter would still have some volunteering experience and some flexibility over her own time.

I think that’s dreadful they’ve asked her to work full days for over half of her holiday and not offering to pay her!

When I was a teen, millions of years ago, we used to do the same at our hobby but were paid in free tuition etc. There should at least be some quid pro quo.

I think that is my issue - she can’t volunteer for random hours. The teacher expects her there for the whole session. She’s effectively doing the work of a paid person , but not being paid. Dd has never really been involved in the financial side of things - I pay her hobbies and she would only have a vague idea of costs of camps, classes, competition fees etc. Dd will just go along with working for free as she doesn’t know what’s usual/expected. But I am trying to guide her and don’t think it’s fair, but I wasn’t sure , hence seeking views. Thanks for all the replies. I will check with Dd that she’s ok and send a message asking re payment

And will DD be ok if the answer from the teacher is “that’s fine, I’ll see if another pupil is ok to volunteer”?

That is the issue.

I think that is my issue - she can’t volunteer for random hours. The teacher expects her there for the whole session.

She really isn’t a volunteer!

What if she is busy one day?

She can say no though.
That is all part of learning to speak up.

The fact that the volunteering is for a certain “shift” doesn’t mean it isn’t volunteering.

DS volunteered as a young leader with cubs. He wasn’t counted in any ratios, of course, but they expected him to turn up each week or let them know if he couldn’t, they planned activities on the basis that young leaders would be there to help with the gluing wood or the chopping vegetables or whatever.

A lot depends on your daughter’s feelings on it. My daughter is 15 and attends a local dance school 2 nights a week and volunteers teaching the baby class (alongside the teacher) on another night. She neither gets paid nor expects it however at the end of year dance show she was brought onto the stage and presented with a small gift and thanked. She enjoys volunteering and I do think it’s good for CV xx

If shes not paid she should ask for free/ discounted classes for herself in lieu of payment. Might need you to intervene to sort this out!

I'd tell the owner, I'd like to help but in order to commit to three full days over half term I need to know how I will be paid.

The difference there is that no one's getting paid or making a profit, although I agree volunteering often means a regular commitment.

I’d expect free classes in return and would give DD the money I would be paying on classes, to her

I would expect the organisers to arrange for age and ability appropriate activities and role for all participants.
They may well feel that your DD will benefit from working with younger people. It will certainly look good on her CV and give her valuable experience.

When I was a teenager and would "help" at my dance school classes and exams etc, I didn't get paid, but I wasn't charged the termly fees for one of the classes I did. I think that's the more usual way of doing this kind of thing rather than hiring her as an employee etc.

She should either be paid or have her own dance lessons free the following term.

I had a client who ran gym classes during the holidays and in the evenings and on saturdays. She had an income of £14k per month from fees and outgoings of approx £2.5k, kept low by not paying staff and relying on goodwill. She constantly moaned that she was skint and had most younger classes run by unpaid teens from the older classes but I'd seen her accounts and knew how much she was making. Of course your daughter should be paid, the group can't run without staff

Noted - I was responding to the poster who seemed to imply that it couldn’t be volunteering if DD couldn’t pick her hours.

Scouting charges subs and there are people within the scouting organisation, albeit not at a pack level, who are paid. Ditto managers of charity shops ( where again, a volunteer can’t just do half a shift)

If the kids put together a routine over the 3 days, say, and perform it at the end, I think it’s fair that the teacher would want consistency of her volunteer(s)

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the DD to enquire about payment and I don’t think it would be unreasonable for the response to be that it’s only a volunteer role. Then it’s up to DD to decide if she wants to do that.

(Logistically, a thank you gift like an Amazon voucher or a discount on next term’s subs would be easier than employing an under 16 year old and maybe that will be the outcome)

Both my DC commit weekly as volunteers for their sports. And one DC also volunteers for a commercial enterprise (dance).

for a block like this, where dancers are paying an extra fee over their weekly classes, I’d happily ask the dance teacher (on her behalf), whether this is paid. I’d then ask my DC to decide whether she loves it so much (she does love working with the younger kids) that she’s happy not to be paid. My DC is gaining skills from her volunteering, so I’m relaxed about the weekly thing. But I’d prefer her to be offered a token amount to give up so much of her half term.

I’ve just taken both mine clothes shopping with a specific amount of money, to reward them for their volunteering.

But it’s not a charity. Should young people work at Tescos for free to help the community? Or do you only view it as helping rather than exploitation in this case as it’s a small business.

If a young person wants to volunteer then they should, for a charity, rather than being taken advantage of by a business.

Don’t let employers take advantage is also a great life lesson to get early on.

@PinkFrogss DD is unlikely to find a volunteering role with a dance charity - so it depends on her motivation.

She isn’t going to be employed. A 14 year old can only work 5h a day in school holidays so if a volunteer can’t be found and the teacher needs an extra body, the teacher would need to pay a 16 year old, not DD.

As I said above, it’s fine if DD doesn’t want to do this without payment, but there’s not a route for her to do it with payment (at least direct payment - discounts etc may be doable)

PS no to the Tesco question - but I’m assuming DD enjoys the dance activities with the kids, if not, she should of course say no

It is exploitative. As you say, she has the experience to add to her CV already