Should my 14-year-old be paid for helping at holiday camps?

[aimee41]

Dd 14 has been doing a hobby for 8 years now and has recently been asked to help at holiday camps. The children attending pay £40 a day to attend. There is obviously hall hire but no other expenses for the coach. When dd was asked to help last time we didn’t ask re payment, I guess we hoped the coach would offer.
Dd has now been asked again. On the one hand she would do it for free, but I don’t want her exploited. There are sometimes other helpers but they are older and help in regular classes and I am pretty sure get paid. Then there are other volunteers but these are mostly mothers running refreshments stands at particular events, not teaching children. Has anyone else experience of this? Thank you

Why?
kids do paper rounds etc all the time.

Should definitely get paid! Flipping cheek!

A friend and I waitressed at a posh party as teens. We were experienced waitresses and worked hard then went home. The very grand host mum then said we weren’t being paid as we were lucky enough to be at the party?! My mum went to see the grand mum. We were paid.

https://saltireawards.scot/

Are you in Scotland, can these hours get logged as volunteering, thats what tends to happen in my area. Kids start volunteering between the ages of 12-14 for their long term clubs, the hours are tracked and there are awards given and the schools celebrate the kids too.

Yes not paid but official recognition and surely useful when applying for a job when getting NI number or in use for uni applications.

For a small number of hours. And if they don’t have a work permit it’s not legal.

There are laws around how many hours a 14 year old can work which probably explains why she’s not being paid.

There are also tons of additional costs above hall hire - insurance, training, equipment for the teacher, and then as she’s self-employed, she needs to save for her taxes, NI, holidays, sick pay, pension as well as cover all her admin time, her accountant, advertising costs etc etc.

They still need work permits and can only work very limited hours each week.

No I don’t think she should be paid, however I would expect that the club would contribute/ pay for a coaching qualification or a slightly discounted club fee.
my dd volunteers at her club for 2 hrs per week but once she’s clocked up 40 hours they pay for her level 1 qualification after that she’s paid for her work.

Hi Op

If she is not a paying customer and is not employed, it's a business, not a charity. I would make sure that she is covered by the Coaches' insurance, for her own safety and that of other children. Also, as a coach helper, the relevant safeguarding is in place and training is in place.

I actually think the.laws are problematic in this area, as they actually discourage the employment of under 16s to the extent it's almost impossible for a small employer to pay them. For your dd to be employed, the club would need to establish whether they need a license for her (it depends on your local authority), she would be entitled to an hour break for every 4 worked and she can only work 5 hours a day max. Unfortunately this means the likelihood is it'll be either she does it voluntarily or not at all.

There's a similar set up local to us but based in a sports centre. 14-17 year olds can volunteer to help, they get fed and get a free annual pass to the sports centre, and many go on to get a part time job there when they're older. From the organisers point of view it's an extra pair of hands but she won't count in ratios so if they're having to pay they may as well pay someone 18+

Why not just contact the teacher and say DD is keen then ask what they are planning to offer her - either monetary payment or payment in kind

I don't really think there is a right or wrong about whether she should be paid, assuming that she is happy to do it for free. But expectations should be clear on both sides. It may be that the coach simply has the idea that she loves doing it, so that payment isn't relevant. If that is a wrong idea, then you need to be frank with her.

I'm guessing that regardless of whether she is paid or not , the coach has liabilities and obligations in relation to her -- say if she were injured or if she caused an injury. But it might be better to have these formalised in some way.

It is perfectly legal for a 14 yo to work part time, though there are restrictions on hours.

The dance teacher will need to stick to employment law as she is a business. It's not like paying a teenager to look after your cat.

And she will likely be paying a commercial rate of more than £12 for the hall.

I'd be more concerned about other arrangements. Will the teacher be employing another adult? If not what happens if something happens to the dance teacher and your daughter has to manage that and 25 kids

Yes, at 14 she can work more in the holidays than in term time, but it is still limited to 5 hours a day, and she has to have a 1-hour break every 4 hours, and a permit is probably needed (depends on your local authority). It's tricky - I get what you are saying about her time being valued but it's not appealing to employers and she might not get a permit at this stage now anyway.

If you google employing a 14 year old in the uk the internet will tell you what you need to know.
She should be paid at least the NMW. A risk assessment must be done by the employer.
In many ways not employing her and asking her to be a volunteer may be the dance classes way of getting around the risk assessment. And legal liability if anything were to happen. Which ain’t good.
They may think offering her a voluntary role is nice for her but they should be aware of their responsibilities. Or at least want to be aware of them.

Dance teacher is taking the mick, 3 full days during half term for a 14 year old? I’d be telling her to jog on.

If DD is really keen to do it I would compromise to 2 half days or 1 full day. As long as she genuinely wanted to do it and didn’t feel pressured to or like she can’t say no to her teacher.

Children that age can work up to 25 hours a week during the school holidays. Send her in with a note asking if she’ll get paid. If it’s a no, perhaps she can just do what suits her e.g. 2 hours a day as a volunteer.

There is no minimum wage if you are under 16.

DS friend worked in a hairdresser quite recently sweeping floors for £4 an hour.

You are right ! My mistake.

I think the question is does the dance teacher NEED your daughter there or not. If she needs her there it should be paid. If she does not need her to be there then its voluntary.

Yes I think she should be paid and I wouldn’t have my daughter going if she wasn’t going to get some compensation for her labour. Even if it’s free/discounted other services, it doesn’t necessarily have to be money. I did a bunch of unpaid shit at her age thinking it would look good on my CV… it didn’t help me at all. What did help was a job that showed I could turn up on time, work, and deal with customers/ the general public.

Assuming you know the coach in some small way if you have regularly paid for this activity I would contact the coach to say

Hello [Coach]. Hope all is well with you? I understand that you have asked [DD] to help out at the upcoming holiday camp on dates [X]? She enjoyed herself last time and is keen but before I make plans for half-term I'd like to check on what basis you have asked her? Is this FT for the [3] days or just a couple of hours? Will she be paid for her time or are you proposing some other arrangement? Also, sorry to sound very formal but modern times unfortunately. From a legal perspective will she be insured while she is onsite and that she won't be asked to supervise any very young children for toilet visits. She obviously hasn't had any safeguarding training.

Good experience for DofE.

Sign her up for Duke of Edinburgh's bronze. Might as well use the volunteering as part of that.

Is there anything she is working towards where the volunteering hours could count eg Duke of Edinburgh award?

To the PP who suggested the dance teacher is raking it in - the nature of such businesses is they need to make a fair bit in the school holidays to support them the rest of the year when they can only run after school or Saturday classes.