Would you say non-white people born & raised in England are English?

[rack909]

Just thought I should hear people’s perspective on this.

Some say it’s an ethnicity, some say it’s a nationality & others say it’s both of them.

I personally think it’s both a Nationality & ethnic group.

If someone says they are from England, they are denoting their nationality as English even if they don’t say it outright. It’s the same thing.

Only on escalating the complaint. Initially they said it was fine and met talk guidelines. The whole thread is wrong and should have been deleted.

Maybe you’re right there, sadly. Either way, it’s depressing to see so much hate on here.

Agreed. Yes there have been robust responses, but the thread shouldn’t be on here.

MN told me Badger was banned. I know exactly who this poster is.

I reported the whole thread first thing this morning. I’m more than surprised it hasn’t been deleted.

How THEY identify? No, it does not work this way. I have consistently identified as French. They French disagree and don't see me as French.

They are still European. No one moved uk to another continent post Brexit.

They have another ethnicity and you don’t. English is a term that describes the ethnicity that has lived in England for 1000 years (actually since the Anglo-Saxons since iirc the Normans didn’t leave much genetic legacy).

English are not just ‘white people who live in England, now broadened to anyone born there’.

You are actually one of the more coherent ethnicities out here in this world and you deny it because it’s mean or something.

tbh people are intensely interested in their own heritage, they aren’t going to identify as ‘English’ in the main, because they see who you are as a group and identify themselves in a different way. Their heritage has value to them (a good thing) and your heritage should also have value to you. No need to lie to yourselves

Hate???? How?? The world has gone mad.

I was born in england. I’m white. Am I English?

idk are you? Could be any number of other ethnicities.

What is English culture though? I think it’s difficult to define. Literature wise people would say Shakespeare but the majority of his plays are set outside of England. Food wise probably fish and chips, sausage rolls, curry, Sunday roasts but again, if you look into the origins of those, only Sunday roasts are actually English. What does it mean to be English really? I think English culture is a wonderful eclectic mish mash of lots of different cultures.

In my (possibly controversial) opinion no. There is no such English passport or identity card, the only way you can be English is by your inherited ethnicity (in your DNA). If they feel English culturally then the proper phrase would be Anglicised, e.g Rishi Sunak is an Anglicised Indian/Punjabi who is a British national. I know someone with an Anglicised Irish last name for instance. The name is not English, it does not originate from here, but it has been adapted to English.

Few here would accept a man "feeling" like a woman to literally be a woman. Why is it any different for an Asian or someone else to "feel" English? I don't "feel" English, it's just what I am. It is my ethnicity, from my DNA. In 500 years my bones would tell an archeologist I was an English woman. I couldn't have inherited any other ethnicity from my parents and I could not pass any other ethnicity on to my children.

The census agrees with this view, in that it only categorises English as a White ethnicity. Black English/Asian English are not legitimate.

As an aside, nobody is arguing that Rishi Sunak is actually Kenyan because that's where his father was born. Or Tanzanian because that's where his mother was born.

I mean if you have no French heritage no you’re not French. If both parents are French and you were born in England and you have a connection to the culture through language and experience then I’d say you have a claim to being French, but be deliberately obtuse if you want.

Yes, indeed, geographically.

But can no longer hold a European passport (in most cases).

And what culture on earth is NOT like that? Japan was both heavily influenced by Han Chinese and American culture. Half of Japanese words are Chinese loanwords, just about 20% of Japanese is now English loan words. Sushi came from China, they now make amazing cheesecake.

Is there no such thing as a Japanese person? Is it that hard to understand Japanese as a distinct culture because so much of it came from elsewhere?

Why on earth do people think 'English' on its own is an ethnicity? English isn't an ethnic group on its own, surely you'd need to say 'white british' or 'black British' or 'Asian British' if you wanted to talk about ethnicity

My daughter is not white. I am, I am English and she has my culture. Of course she is English.

This thread for me has completely brought light to the reasons that far right politics and patriotism has become so popular. No wonder many of the people of Britain who consider themselves white and English feel threatened when it is not only denied that they are a nationality but that they are even an ethnic group and also denied that they have a distinct culture. And this is by some people who could be considered to be ethnically English themselves.

I would call them British and I think of that as my own nationality. But English is also totally fine. Ditto Scottish. It’s a weird question.

And anyone born in the region of the UK that is England is English yes why on earth would they not be

Why do think White British is an ethnic group but white English not? Surely that's a nationality, not an ethnic group.

Not sure I follow. My son, his dad and paternal grandmother are all born in England with one fully Irish born and bred parent. All consider themselves English (no bother to me at all). The rest of us are all born and bred in Ireland and my son’s paternal grandfather and I each moved to the UK as adults, met our “half Irish” partners and had kids. We now live back in Ireland where my son only identifies as English, despite living here for much longer. My point is, it’s a personal choice how people identify - some, like your family feel they need to assert their Irishness (dermot O’Leary recently spoke about this) and some like my son’s paternal family assimilate (although his grandfather would identify as Irish, having been born here). But despite sounding, feeling, being Irish for 400 years, some people here in Ireland view me and my family as West Brits/Anglo because we came originally from England in the 1600s!

Me too!! despicable.

Is MN the new haven for right wing conspiracy theorists? Sick of it.

Is anyone an actual, distinct ethnic group in your mind? Seems you don’t believe in the concept of human ethnicity?