Did we learn nothing from Covid?

[PistachioTiramisu]

I cannot believe that the people who were on board the cruise ship and who have contracted/been exposed to the hantavirus are all being repatriated! Why on earth were they not all kept on the ship until medical personnel were sure they were not infected? I don't care if they wanted to get home to their families - they are a potential danger. So now we have people in France, the UK and I think Japan who have travelled with other people back to their own country. It's madness.,

You could catch it tomorrow from rats in the UK the virus is in rats all over the world. There are reasons we don't want rats in our houses and potential diseases such as this virus are one. Chances of catching it from another person are slim to none.

No. You can't. This is the Andes hantavirus, which is different from regular hantavirus.

self isolation would be managed with public health protections in place at every stage.

Did they explain who would be preventing them from going out or from having visitors come in, 24/7?

Chances of catching it from another person are slim to none.

Well they aren't none, because we're heading for double figures infected and people have died!

The passengers were isolated for 72 hours. Elsewhere, it is 3, 4, or more weeks of hospital isolation, and then quarantine (mandatory) at home for a further period of time. In the UK, the quarantine, after the 72 hours, is voluntary.

It has been on the official announcements, that they are just "asking" people to stay home. And in the news that they cannot legally be required to stay home.

As the virus has an incubation period of up to 8 weeks, testing negative now does not necessarily mean they are not infected - otherwise all passengers and contacts would just be tested and told to get on with their lives if negative.

Likely to have been a vantage point on a nice rubbish tip, probably crawling with rats. But I'm not sure they know for certain, rats could have got on board with supplies. Or even contaminated food could have been brought on board.

@PistachioTiramisu Did you know about this virus then? I’ve been to Argentina where it’s killed people and I’ve never heard of it until the cruise ship. Do you think you know all about every virus? Think again! More die here because they don’t have the flu jab than die from a virus you didn’t know existed - even if thousands get it every year!

I found this video/information quite reassuring. The female doctor in it is a pathologist. Hantavirus is not a new virus. It is not a respiratory virus as such, but a bloodborne virus and transmission is known to be through bodily fluids/close contacts - it isn’t airborne. The virus does not “live” in the respiratory tract (unlike Covid) but affects the vascular system of the lungs when infected. When transmitted from rats to humans it is possible if you are very near rat droppings/urine to breathe in the pathogens and catch it that way. How can we know for sure that there definitely were not any rats on that ship? Or food from South American ports where Hantavirus is endemic could have been contaminated. Currently all confirmed cases are people who were on board.

I live in the local area of the hospital the passengers were transferred to, and ‘voluntary’ isolation was not the impression the UKHSA gave in a statement to local residents. All of the passengers repatriated to the UK were transferred to the hospital for assessment and tested negative for the virus. An assurance was given that onward travel and self isolation on leaving the hospital would be properly overseen with public health protection protocols in place.

They couldn’t keep them on the boat but should have taken them somewhere to a large quarantine facility and kept them there until they were 100% sure they were in the clear. Bringing them to Tenerife and then flying them all to different countries was madness. The Irish ones here I think have been told to isolate at home. Will they actually do that?
Covid was played down at the start. People still travelling, Cheltenham going ahead etc. Then it all got out of hand and went on for 2 years.

You should actually get up to date before posting. Not everyone was on the ship, one was on a plane. And now they DO think it's airborne.

John Campbell is now wholly discredited, so don’t set any store by him. He spread covid misinformation, including advocating the use of ivermectin (an antiparasitic) to treat the virus.

There are different variations in different countries. None of them transfer easily between people.

I completely agree, my degree is in physics, so not a virologist - but it does seem to me that the real world virologists handling this have taken a rather scattergun and frankly bizarre approach to potential containment.

To quote Dr Tedros the risk to the public is low - but is a low risk a risk worth taking? especially when it seems that risk could easily be further mitigated by simply keeping the potentially infected people isolated under strict supervision until the risk, however low, is gone.

"Passengers will be asked to isolate for up to 45 days, with regular testing and ongoing care provided by UKHSA and NHS teams."

UKHSA update on the hantavirus cruise ship outbreak - GOV.UK

The operative word here is "asked".

Hantavirus is actually quite hard to catch. It’s not spread by coughs or sneezes the way Covid is, and doesn’t remain long outside the body. It’s either picked up by direct exposure to the rat faeces/urine, or from prolonged close contact/fluid exchange with someone infected. As patient zero was an ornithologist and was likely grubbing around outdoors, and then crammed on a cruise ship, which are famously cesspits, it’s easy to see how it could spread in those conditions but not spread more widely. Just look at the numbers on the ship vs the number of people who got infected - it’s a very small percentage, considering.

So true. Which is why I have cancelled my upcoming trip to Barnard Castle.

How can we know for sure that there definitely were not any rats on that ship? Or food from South American ports where Hantavirus is endemic could have been contaminated. Currently all confirmed cases are people who were on board.

It’s my understanding that the source of the virus was traced to the venue of a bird watching trip onshore. This outbreak was caused by long tailed pygmy rice rats which cause the Andes virus. They’re found in forests not aboard cruise ships.

Yes because you know what? I don’t believe 20 random people who have been quarantined on a ship, repatriated by the government, spent 3 days in a government facility and have their own personal health team in their home town to support them isolating there wouldn’t actually be stupid/ rebellious/ uncaring/ negligent enough to ignore the advice they’ve been given.

I’d hate to be as cynical of other people as many of you are.

I would rather inconvenience a few people for 6 weeks and keep them in monitored isolation than letting them go home and we have to hope they follow the rules, than risk it spreading.

This is specifically the Andes virus. In the most recent outbreak, in 2018-2019, people who attended a party, and then later a funeral, were infected. One case was infected after just saying hello to the first infected man. Others were infected after sitting at nearby tables.

In this instance, the passengers were on board a small ship and caught it, it is thought, after the infection was brought on board by the initially infected couple who had gone birdwatching throughout South America.

The Andes virus is in all excreted human bodily fluids, including human urine and excrement, saliva, blood, tears, and the droplets expelled through coughing, sneezing, and speaking.

But that’s not what’s happening. On release from hospital (where they all tested negative for the virus) the UK Health Security Agency is overseeing public health protection safeguarding during onward travel and providing monitoring and support throughout the isolation period.

Do you mean the flight attendant? Turns out they were not infected after all… (check out recent news). Many people on that plane will end up having symptoms of common illnesses over the next few weeks (cold, norovirus etc) - does not mean they have hantavirus.

From the Telegraph:

"British passengers on the cruise ship struck by hantavirus will not be legally required to self-isolate when released from hospital in the next few days, it has emerged.
The 20 passengers who returned to the UK on Sunday after being evacuated from the MV Hondius are being asked to isolate for six weeks, but this will be “voluntary” rather than mandated by law, say health chiefs.
The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) has a legal power to enforce quarantine and it is understood that UK public health officials have been debating for days whether they should activate this power under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, the same legislation used during the Covid-19 pandemic.
However, health bosses will activate the legal power only if passengers do not co-operate and public safety is threatened, said a Whitehall source.
The law provides ministers and officials with sweeping legal powers over individuals, groups and premises to enforce a de facto lockdown if it is deemed necessary.
Lawyers told The Telegraph that the UKHSA could apply either directly to a magistrate or to ministers if it felt that legal force was required, as happened during Covid-19.
Ministers can grant immediate powers to detain and isolate people who pose a threat to public health, but would have to go to Parliament within 28 days to extend any such licence, said Adam Wagner KC, a barrister at Doughty Street Chambers."