Sister still in our spare room and not moving out

[doonaduvet]

Sorry - might be long. My sister came back from overseas when our mum died 7 years ago and was living in the same small town as our dad until 9 months ago. She then moved to the city about 4 hours away where I live with my husband and son (both of who have medical needs) and has been living in our spare room/my craft room for those 8 months. She originally planned on getting a rental but as she only works part-time as an in-home-carer/house cleaner, she kept getting knocked back as she didn't earn enough money and seemed surprised rents were so much more here. Two months ago she decided it wasn't meant to be so plans on moving back to the town. Trouble is, she is not doing much to make the move happen and my husband is now losing his patience - I lost mine 2 months ago when I told her she needed to start paying something towards gas/electricity/water so she grudgingly gives 50 a week, this barely covers that, and she also eats what I cook for us every night accept one which I made her buy and cook for but it's usually only pasta so I have to add some protein to that for my son (due to his medical condition).
I'm so angry I can't be in the same room as her now (could be menopause as well). She must know it is so inconvenient for us, my daughter has to sleep on the sofa rather than in her old bed when she visits from the next city and my MIL hasn't even been able to come and see our new house as we can't put her up (sister moved in 2 months after we had).
Yes, there is a lot of history, she's dyslexic and neurodivergent and found school difficult and I was a good student who joined the military and went to university. I'm now a part-time teacher, married with adult children and have a house (mortgaged until I'm 68) but she has led a carefree life, trained as a nursing associate, traveled the world, worked on cruise ships, done lots of courses but now has no security in her mid 50's so is taking advantage of my family.
I need her gone but she is now talking about making dad leave his 3 bed council house (which is admittedly too much for him) to privately rent with her in the town. I don't know what dad will think of this, I know having her back in the same town would be good for dad and take some worry off me, but I don't know how them living together would work.
I want my craft room back that I only had for 2 months and to get the house sorted, her and her stuff are in the way and I've given up trying to do it with her here.
Sorry again for the length, thanks for reading, I just needed a vent

DH and I have had a conversation and I have apologized to him for the situation @Ferrissia.
I have to take my son to a specialist appointment a couple of hours away tomorrow and we have decided between us that DH will talk to her and will give her until the end of May to move out. Hopefully that will enable our sister relationship to continue. I do get this is hard for her, my husband thinks if he frames it as us needing the room back so our son can stay in it whilst we get the ensuite in his room fixed she can't argue.
Others saying it isn't my responsibility, I am taking that onboard, she needs to sort it.

Don’t wait until July. You need to get yourself organised and your head in a good space before your course starts. If you wait until then and she hasn’t moved out this will cause you more headaches. You also need to think about your husband. It’s his home too.

Good luck

Surely she would have to pay the "much higher rent"?

Council rents are much lower than private sector rents (my MIL's rent is £125pw for a 2-bed house, less than you'd pay for a room in a shared house in her area).

I hope she's paying to stay with you, OP.

I had a similar problem but with a friend. She lived with me for 18 months before finally going. I really thought she would be gone sooner because the location wasn’t ideal but she sounds very much like your sister. A free spirit, not interested in holding down a regular job but expecting everyone else to house/fund her. In the end it got to around this time of year and I told her to be out by the summer holidays. After that, I checked in with her every couple of weeks and she hadn’t gone by July so I put more pressure on her and she finally left in the August. Our relationship soured for various reasons so it was difficult. that was 3 years ago and I still think about how hard it was and how glad I am she finally left. I am sure your relationship will recover in time. Good luck

Definitely make moves to give her a leaving date. It has gone on long enough now. You may need to make life a little bit uncomfortable for her to sway her into moving out, no more meals cooked, charge more rent to cover electric ect. If you want to keep doing meals to keep some of the peace charge rent and board and put it close to market rate.

Could your dad and sister live together and downsize into 2 bedroom council house? He should not be giving up his council tenancy. If he was to mention downsizing to the council they will probably snap his hand off as 3 bed council houses are in demand. They will also likely have some decent and nice 1 or 2 bed council houses. If she's on the council list as cohabiting with your dad if anything was to happen to him she would probably be able to keep the tenancy solving the where will she live issues.

Well yes, but her earnings would pay towards it. It’s ridiculous that he has room and she’s not in there.

You're still trying to pander to her. Don't make up stuff about the ensuite. She'll say she'll stay on the couch. It's exactly what she'll argue against you.

I'd give her 4 weeks notice, tell her you'll help her move, each week remind her of the deadline so that it doesn't go by.

Don't make arrangements with your father. Your sister is a grown woman who thus far has shown herself capable of minding herself. You are not her mother. She's abusing you and your kindness. She's not properly financially contributing, she couldn't care less about your own child sleeping on the couch, which is outrageous except in an emergency, she doesn't care your MIL can't stay, she's no bills and didn't volunteer to pay anything towards her keep. Even the one meal she does cook isn't adequate. How unbelievable rude is that. Does she clean up after dinner on the other days or help around the house?

just this. You are not your sister's carer or you father's carer (assuming he has capacity and you don't hold POA. Big girl pants up, foot down.

Yes @Cailin66, she does unpack and pack the dishwasher if I haven't done it and will feed the cat, she doesn't do any cleaning though except her own washing.
We didn't make it up about the ensuite, DS can't use the shower due to a leak which we need fixed, but good point about her using it as an excuse, will talk with DH again. Thanks

I agree about not making excuses or framing it as anything. That just opens the door for options, yes buts, and what ifs.
The line is "this is not working for us and we have decided that xxx" (set deadline)
I think that you are right and it may affect your relationship but I do wonder if you want a relationship with a freeloader even though they are a relative?

Tell her to go. If she has no savings the sensible thing is that she moves in with your Dad and also applies for housing. Between them they may be able to come to a sensible solution with the council.
That assumes he wants his adult daughter living with him admittedly because it doesn't sound like she will pull her weight at all.

You've given her six months which is more than adequate. She should leave before your son's exams and if he is upset you can remind him that your father has spare rooms, she just wants to live in the city but she's had six months rent free to sort herself out.

Do not raise her rent, do not get her to do more -that then justifies her staying - she’s 50 ,get her out now so that she can get something in place for the test of her life, if she becomes older,less healthy etc who will provide for her? Get her to sort herself out now.

Can relatives no longer take on a social housing house if they’ve lived there,been a ‘carer’ for years? So she would get DF’s house when he has gone.

A lot depends on DF’s finances. Prerhaps they could buy somewhere she will inherit from him.

I'd add that If she is zero hours, then I'd tell her that you are driving her back to your Dad's on Saturday morning.
If she has two weeks notice, then apply that and book in the day to transfer her stuff.

This.

There are lots of things to unpick here but you have someone contrbuting very little. Your Dad is in a 3 BED council house. That is your answer. A 3 bed council house for one person is not right

No Doonaduvet is the answer then. Emptying the dishwasher takes 5 minutes, loading it 10. That does not count as helping. It's actually insulting.

Forget about the ensuite. That wasn't my point. Which is don't give her a reason, she doesn't need a reason. Because she will use it right back at you to argue.

It's not working, simple. Not working. She has to move. Be as sympathetic as you want, but do not back down on 'this is not working' . Don't agree to more rent, more housework, nothing. Do not go into why it's not working, say I love you sis, but this is not working. I need you to leave on Wednesday 20th April, I will help you pack, we will help you move your stuff. Remind her every Wednesday. Do not let her come back at you anotehr day with another 'reason' 'story' 'argument about her terrible life'. She is a grown adult who has made her choices. Indeed she's a free house to live in with your father if she so choses.

You meanwhile are working hard, keeping a house, bringing up children, minding 2 people with medical needs, worried about your dad doing the admin for him. She didn't move to the city to work, she's not even working full time, she moved there to move into your spare room for free. She's lived there 5 months without a cent, grudgingly now gives you 50 pounds a week, has put everybody else out, does nothing around the house (cat and dishwasher, please.........). She's got the full measure of you and your generosity. And is fully abusing it.

Op I understand your dynamic with your sister. It's hard but you are enabling your sister to remain a child. You have other people to look after who should come first.

From personal experience once you stop enabling her there will be other people she will manipulate to take on the burden for a while and then give up. Eventually she will have to find her own way and the older she is the harder it will be. Dont wear yourself out now.

But they're not? My responsibility is to my child, I care about my other family members but I can't do much, if anything, to sort them out. I tried being responsible for the happiness of others a few times and it was utterly draining and dreadful for my own mental health. 'You cannot pour from an empty pitcher.' I'm not doing it again, except for DS.

The wife concerned about her husband's lack of fulfilment then went on to say he'd wasted money he could have used when they were younger, instead of putting it towards training to be an airline pilot, so my sympathy was limited.

No, they would have to pay the rent between them but if your dad is on benefits it would be proportionate. And surely your dad would be paying bedroom tax now? I would be reluctant to encourage my dad to give up secure housing so your sister can go live where she wants. That’s crazy! Just send her to live with him or out SUVs very like she will fleece him

I think you must give her a deadline and suggest she moves in with dad. Whatever increase there in council tax (which will happen) or rent ( not sure why this would happen) it will cost less than privately renting.

Tell her your DD needs to have a room and you are not happy with her being deterred from visiting. Give her a date.... say mid May. Don't take no for an answer.

She is highly manipulative.
She will never consider your needs or difficulties.
She just doesn't care about any of that.
It's boring to her.
she will Just hitch her wagon wherever she can get a free ride for as long as she can spin it out.
Part of your stress is that you are waiting for her to be more like you.
To be considerate etc.
Ain't gonna happen.
Tell her to go. Shortly.
Don't give a reason beyond that it's not working for you.
With these type of people any given reason will lead to them prising a way through.
Stand firm.
All the best.

I wouldn’t use the en-suite because there are workarounds.

When I was in the same situation DH said to use him as the excuse. We basically told my sibling that DH had had enough and needed his own space and privacy back and that he had only agreed to my sibling staying for 1 month which somehow became 2 years. My DH even played it up and said to my sibling that no offence, but if they didn’t move out then DH would move out himself 😂 my sibling understood as it’s one thing to put up with immediate family living in your house, but putting up with in laws is a whole other sacrifice.

My DH was happy to sacrifice his relationship with my sibling to preserve the sibling relationship, but he left no room or scope for my sibling staying in the house. You have to be firm whatever approach you take.