Sister still in our spare room and not moving out

[doonaduvet]

Sorry - might be long. My sister came back from overseas when our mum died 7 years ago and was living in the same small town as our dad until 9 months ago. She then moved to the city about 4 hours away where I live with my husband and son (both of who have medical needs) and has been living in our spare room/my craft room for those 8 months. She originally planned on getting a rental but as she only works part-time as an in-home-carer/house cleaner, she kept getting knocked back as she didn't earn enough money and seemed surprised rents were so much more here. Two months ago she decided it wasn't meant to be so plans on moving back to the town. Trouble is, she is not doing much to make the move happen and my husband is now losing his patience - I lost mine 2 months ago when I told her she needed to start paying something towards gas/electricity/water so she grudgingly gives 50 a week, this barely covers that, and she also eats what I cook for us every night accept one which I made her buy and cook for but it's usually only pasta so I have to add some protein to that for my son (due to his medical condition).
I'm so angry I can't be in the same room as her now (could be menopause as well). She must know it is so inconvenient for us, my daughter has to sleep on the sofa rather than in her old bed when she visits from the next city and my MIL hasn't even been able to come and see our new house as we can't put her up (sister moved in 2 months after we had).
Yes, there is a lot of history, she's dyslexic and neurodivergent and found school difficult and I was a good student who joined the military and went to university. I'm now a part-time teacher, married with adult children and have a house (mortgaged until I'm 68) but she has led a carefree life, trained as a nursing associate, traveled the world, worked on cruise ships, done lots of courses but now has no security in her mid 50's so is taking advantage of my family.
I need her gone but she is now talking about making dad leave his 3 bed council house (which is admittedly too much for him) to privately rent with her in the town. I don't know what dad will think of this, I know having her back in the same town would be good for dad and take some worry off me, but I don't know how them living together would work.
I want my craft room back that I only had for 2 months and to get the house sorted, her and her stuff are in the way and I've given up trying to do it with her here.
Sorry again for the length, thanks for reading, I just needed a vent

Yes I was going to say that your father should have some choice in this too! It’s not as though we are talking about a young, vulnerable person being homeless. Your sister is in her mid-fifties and your dad may not like the idea of her moving in, even though it’s the obvious solution. And he definitely should not give up his council house.

If she does move in with dad though then at least they should talk to the council together especially if he is at the age when he is starting to need more support. Your sister could perhaps become his carer?

I was going to say as the parent of an adult child with autism, that some autistic people do have problems working ft owing to the sensory overload and exhaustion of having to be around people so much, but if your sister has tolerated working on cruise ships then surely she can tolerate getting more cleaning hours or caring one on one? Or does her dyslexia prevent her from working in a caring role if written instructions are involved? But if that is the case with your sister then she would be better off trying to support herself bc she won’t get extra support like benefits if you are helping her,

Also, you have given your sister a refuge for eight months op. Please tell me she has saved up enough for a deposit now that she has been living with you virtually rent free and had so few expenses?

Any person offering a family member a spare room when they are in difficulty should always thrash out some agreement in advance about length of stay and finances etc, and you, being very kind , did not do this op, but now is the time to step in and say to your sister that this always was a temporary measure, that you and your dh and dc need your family home back and you need the study space. Don’t just make it about you, say everyone has had enough now.

If she is autistic she may need to have this spelt out to her very clearly. And I would also put arrangements in place and say that if this does not happen by July then a, b or c will take place. She may need a big push in other words as underneath everything she may be scared. I know that’s not your responsibility but talk to her honestly about why she has found it difficult to set up a stable life for herself and encourage her to seek support if necessary.

This could be her very last chance with her being the age she is, to step up her working hours and get herself established independently. It will be much harder in ten years time. She needs to crack on with that now and that’s another reason she needs to leave your place and return to taking responsibility for herself.

Is she even looking for work back where your dad lives? She should move back home then sort out her own living space in a house share or similar

Personally I wouldn’t do this because Op does not want her there, even if she was paying more. Op wants her gone. And it gives her another excuse to dawdle, “oh but I paid you rent for the next three months” and she can start paying rent and then suddenly stop doing so. No it’s better if op is completely honest,

There's a really easy solution to this. You tell her she needs to move out today. That's it.

2 weeks notice, no more.

she needs a deadline to be moved out.
she should also be paying to cover costs of rent and bills since she’s been staying so long.

The issue is that you have not given your sister a deadline. I’d give her 4 weeks notice and make it absolutely clear this is not a request, it is a fact. After 1 week, a three week warning. After 2 weeks, an offer do you want us to help you pack? Will you need any help to move your stuff? After 3 weeks, offers of storage companies details for her to leave her stuff at ‘if she still hasn’t got every sorted’. Then after my deadline I’d pack up all her belongings and put them in the hallway / wherever I can and insist she returns my keys. If there is much gnashing and wailing I might let her stay even another 2 weeks, but she would not have keys to the flat and I would reclaim the room and put all my belongings in it - she can sleep on the sofa. After 2 weeks, if she STILL hasn’t gone, then I would refuse her entry and take all her belongings myself to her father’s house.

Give her a month to move out. Then pack her stuff up and take it to your dad's. So what they'll have to pay more, she can pay it.

Hard disagree OP. I think your first move should be to apologize to your husband, closely followed by giving your sister notice.

If she wants to talk to your dad about housing, she can go for it - that's not your problem to solve.

I agree, she needs to move there and become a full time cleaner and the problem is sorted.

Thanks for understanding @ForCosyLion , as much as I needed the kick up the bum from others I truly appreciate your support. As I've said, there's a lot of history here, me being seen as the capable one and her as the free spirit. I've worked incredibly hard, in the military for 15 years and I have been a special needs teacher for the same, all that required a lot of sacrifice to be in a position to have a mortgage I will hopefully be able to pay off by retirement. She's lived paycheck to paycheck and is now concerned about her future and wanted me to subsidize it and I have been to make her life easier and to take away any guilt I feel for the stupid reason of having a normal life with responsibilities and a bit of intelligence. I think I'm at breaking point and can't see a way ahead. I'm worried if I tell her to leave she will kick off and I can't have that happen around my son, he is ill awaiting surgery and studying and I told want him upset.

Your opening message sums up a lot about why you have put up with this situation. You have some sort of misguided guilt that you have done better. Why should you feel like that ? DH can be a bit like this about his useless sister who constantly makes stupid decisions and hasn’t done so well in life. She took 2 years off to travel the world mid thirties, lovely do what you want but then don’t whine you have zero money. She will never be staying at our house, she has no pension and has rinsed her own Mother a few times, I’m sick of her to be honest,

Just give her an actual date to move out by, 2 to 4 weeks, lodgers in your home have no rights whatsoever. Forget that blood is thicker than water bollocks. I also have a sister who is a bit useless and just tried to make everyone feel sorry for her, she isn’t just a bit thick like DH sister, mine is manipulative. I cut her off after our Mother died.

Can you not just warn your son? Tell him that you're telling Dsis to move out and that she might be a bit awkward about it and then actually get her to move out? Even ill, I'm sure he's just as tired of her freeloading as the rest of you are and he will know that, even if there's a bit of kerfuffle, there is an end to it coming? You're not asking him to live with permanent disruption and I'm sure he's capable of coping with it if you tell him what's going on?

Or are you looking for an excuse not to rock the boat? Because there will always be something, some reason why your speaking up to tell Dsis to move will be difficult for the family. You have to bite the bullet.

OP, if your father has a three bed council house, can’t she go and live with him temporarily while she decides what to do next? It sounds as though he has more spare space than you do. If she did that, you wouldn’t feel you were throwing her out into the street, and perhaps DF would be pleased to have the odd meal cooked for him. The current situation can’t carry in - something has to change. It’s not reasonable that you can’t see your MIL and other family members because your DSis has decided to billet herself on you.

When I was in this same situation (except sibling was living with us rent free for two years), my husband let me use him as the excuse. My sibling understood and moved out within a week of that conversation.

This allowed me preserve my close relationship with my sibling - and we all still have a great relationship now, including my husband and sibling.

I had one like that, not a sister but an ex. I would say that if she has been doing so many different jobs, she is resourceful enough to find a way to support herself… if she needs to.

Tell her you need her to leave in 4 weeks. I’m not suggesting telling her she needs to pay more because I am sure you don’t want to extend her stay, just ending it and I don’t blame you.

If you see my previous post, I was in this same situation and was able to extricate myself without impacting my relationship with my sibling.

One thing that I noticed, my sibling thrived after moving as the reality of their situation, that they no longer had me as a complete fallback, was what they needed to become more stable and build towards their future.

I still help them out in less extreme ways than free rent and board, but it’s mutual now, and we are both very grateful to have each other. My sibling would drop everything to come help me so I’m glad I didn’t damage our relationship in the process of getting them to move out.

Can your DH and son go out for an hour or so on a weekend so you have the time to have the conversation with her? Then if she kicks off it doesn’t particularly matter.

Approach your dad today, ask him if he’s willing to have her live with him. If he says yes, just tell her the plan and when it’s going to happen.

As others have said, you don’t have to house her but you are responsible for letting this get to the point it has (I’m not judging, I had similar with a family member).

See it as having a horrible conversation or 2, an uncomfortable week or 2 and as a reward, peace and your house back to yourself.

You have to make it harder for her to stay than it is for her to go. Don't solve all the problems for her, give her a short-ish timeframe for leaving. 4 weeks sounds right to me but then maybe be prepared to negotiate up to 6 or something. I think moving in elsewhere as a lodger might work best for her as a temporary measure while she sorts something else out, but that is up to her.

I imagine this is all extremely hard for her. That doesn't mean you have to just put up with it, but I would try to frame her resistance in this way, because it makes it easier to talk to her without exploding than if you label her as selfish etc.. She is very lucky to have you.

This is an entirely reasonable approach

Yes but it'll reduce his bedroom tax?

100% agree with this but sadly I think she will just bury her head uin the sand, pretend she didnt hear you or give any excuse under the sun as to why there is nothing within her budget.

Lots of people are ND - dont let that be one of her excuses.

Help her to move home again to where your dad is, give her a lift with all of her things.

She can stay with him temporarily until she works out a job and an address. It also means he’s got some company so you don’t have to worry.

Thanks again for all the support. She's dyslexic but does read books but struggles with writing, I have written all her job and rental applications. I did find her one job I thought she was perfect for but she said it would involve too much writing. I'm a dyslexic specialist and have helped many students into work so know what she is capable of, she just doesn't seem to want to stretch herself. She's a gifted massage therapist but with arthritis can't do it anymore so I suggested doing a course to be a trainer which would be free for her, but she said she can't be bothered. I'm so frustrated.

I think OP is in the US so the same rules may not apply.