Is this neglect ?

[Rainbowfish1]

I'm really worried about my niece , age. 4, and don't know if I'm overthinking.
My brother got her mum pregnant after a short relationship, they split shortly after niece was born, he pays maintenance regularly via the CMS but apart from that has little day to day involvement, ( yes I know, DB' s a dick). He's 45 and nieces mum is 25.

-My niece is meant to go to nursery 1-6, 2 afternoons a week during term time, ( nursery stretches funding so this includes holidays). My friend works there and says she's always absent , misses at least one session a fortnight, often more, ( obviously nursery can't enforce attendance as nursery is not legally compulsory). When she is in , session starts at 13:00, but frequently not dropped till 13.30/ 13.45 etc.

• When she's not at nursery, ( and she rarely is !) they go nowhere. Literally nowhere. Nursery is Tuesday and Friday, and between they don't go out at all. Absolutely lovely shared garden and play area in their block of flats but don't go there. They don't leave the house for days on end. Sister in law is addicted to gaming etc and basically happy to stay in.
• Sister-in-law doesn't brush her teeth as "niece doesn't like it ", what 4 year old likes having their teeth brushed...
• Niece is only dressed on nursery days, ( where she does seem to dress her appropriately), she stays in her PJs for days on end otherwise. Whenever I visit on a non nursery day , niece is in her pyjamas, even at 2/3pm. Sister-in-law says what's the point in dressing niece if they are not going out.
• Sister in law is very overweight, basically live off take aways each night, ( only healthy meal she gets is the dinner 2 x a week at nursery).
• The flat is filthy. Five cats in a two bed flat , stinks of cat urine whenever I go round, litter trays always overflowing. Extremely cluttered and no space for niece to play.
• Sister-in-law smokes weed daily, ( she says only when niece is in bed ), but the whole flat stinks of it.

I know the simple answer is to report to soical, but I'm worried they won't do anything and it will just end up withe and my parents being cut off
Does this cross the line to reportable neglect?

Have to say I agree with this.

Thank goodness that little girl has your family engaged. What does the mum's family do or say about this situation?

I think going through the safeguarding at nursery first would be the best step. I would put it in writing, so they have to investigate and provide a weitten response they have followed up. More knowledge people on here, but I doubt you'll be given the outcome. If you don't see any change imminently I'd go to SS. Thank goodness she is enrolled at a nursery rather than not having anything in place.sounds like they both need support.

Absolutely you should report this - can do so anonymously if you’re worried about it affecting your relationship. Does your brother know / care? How on earth is this “mother” going to get this girl to school 5 days a week when she starts? This needs intervention NOW. I worked for social services and they will try and help the mother to be better and not just remove her as long as mother is willing to work with them. Also how much benefit money is she spending on takeaways / weed? This could be spent on her child, makes me so angry 😡

child starved of social contact they only really need their mums the first few years. How likely is it she never leaves the house ? She probably goes to the shops and to her mother's sometimes. I don't really think the mother will just change though, as it's not just that she is neglecting the daughter she is exposing herself to toxic air from cat urine. It's almost as if she's just fine with it or something doesn't see the issue living like that. I can't really understand how she can stand it

What’s the reason that you and your DPs aren’t more involved OP? Will your DSIL let you have DN for the day or even overnight?

I think it is relevant OP. A child never getting dressed is kind of a sign of wider neglect. The never going out is awful and being exposed to weed, junk food and cat urine all day. I bet she spends a lot of her time on screens 🙁. I know that part isn't classed as neglect officially but it's so damaging.

So you think this is a nurturing environment for this 4 year old to be living in? The “poor mother” needs to look after her child and needs intervention as she clearly isn’t doing, how will she cope when child starts school? Sorry but child’s welfare always comes before poor mother!

Mission optional nursery and being home bodies are not going to meet any threshold of neglect. But drug use and unsafe home environment would.

Yes, it's neglect. It may be your niece's Mum needs support, and I suspect SS would offer it. The fact your niece is living in dirty conditions, rarely attends nursery, no teeth cleaning and her Mum's weed habit, would certainly be enough for SS to at least investigate. The bar is extremely high for the level of neglect that a child needs to endure, for removal from the home.

You need to report it, either direct to SS or your niece's nursery.

Exactly this!

This is utter nonsense. I’ve worked closely with SS child services as part of my job and unless there is an urgent need, the decision to remove a child from the parent/s is always a last resort after all options have been exhausted. The remit of child services is what’s best for the child and they will work with parents to achieve that as far as possible, and will involve/refer to other agencies who can help wherever appropriate. Your post is as dangerous as the poster you were replying to - by not reporting you are denying the child the help they need. You can’t simply take over the care of a child within the neglectful environment, you need to leave it to the professionals, that’s what they’re there for.

What would that achieve ? It’s the home environment that needs to be addressed.

Does it matter if the OP and her parents take the niece out on a regular basis? It's not her job to give this child's mother a break. She gets 10 hours a week of free nursery to give her time to clean up her flat and go shopping. The child also has a father who should step up. It's not the aunt's duty to step up and do what her brother should be doing. All this child's mum will do with any regular breaks from her child is continue to game and smoke weed. She'll learn that the can just shove the kid off once a week and continue to be lazy. Where's her parents and other family support? Why should it all be on dad's family to clean up after this lazy mother. She can afford to take her kid out herself she's sitting on benefits with £300 a month child maintenance on top of it. If she can afford to game and live on takeaways she can afford to give her kid some days out herself with all the free time and funds she has

The child is hardly attending nursery and it’s not compulsory so there’s unlikely to be any significant change. Social Services is a better option as they can work with mum and get other support services in place.

Of course you need to report.
A mother who can't get her child dressed appropriately.
Teeth not cleaned.
Filthy house.
Gaming all day.
Not attending nursery routinely.
And please can we stop with the overwhelmed nonsense? She's not doing the bare minimum for one child. She's not coping with 6 in an overcrowded home,for crying out loud.
And as for the guilt tripping going on!
While other members of the family might be happy to help that's just propping up neglect. I agree the father is useless, but so it seems is the mother. Without social services being involved she won't change.

If what OP says about the situation is true, then the appropriate action is to report it to social services. They are equipped to work with mum to effect change and refer to other appropriate support, OP and her family are not. Anything else is just denying the child the help she needs. The focus here shouldn’t be the effect of reporting on mum, it should be 100% on the welfare of the child, and in this Lind of situation professional help is the way to go.

wow.. isnt your brother a delight. !!.....sounds like the poor woman needs help with her life instead of judgement from you

Mum is not the priority here, the child is. And the most effective way to get help for her is to involve the professionals. They will work with mum and enlist other support that OP and her family won’t have access to without a referral. This is a neglect situation and not appropriate for family support. Mum needs professional help, support to change and consequences if that change doesn’t happen.

Then you haven’t read OP’s post properly. The mother and the nursery worker are not the priority here, the child is, and she’s being neglected. Both mother and child need professional help.

Yes. Report this to social services.

She is clearly struggling can your parents take her to nursery on her days, maybe help out a bit i do think you need to do something, maybe call ss for advice?

Report to Social services so she gets some support! And report to SG lead at nursery. There’s a 4 year old at risk here - cutting off contact w your parents etc is far less important than the 4 yo being looked after well and not neglected.

The whole thing confuses me a bit. I mean there's stuff in there that's personal like the mums weight I feel like there assumptions about leaving the house. Assumptions about whats eaten . Yes there may be take aways but that doesn't other things are not eaten. How do they know shes in pj's all day every day. How do they know shes not popping to the shops going to the park on the way. Surely people need to see that as an on going thing can they tell that by popping round once a week . Or judging because she doesnt always go to nursery.

Yes some of it sounds like it could be neglect the the cat mess the hygiene . Weed smoking.

When its mixed in with personal judgement. It waters down the true concern and makes me think is this what it seems.

Maybe early help may be helpful to them maybe positive encouragement and support. Maybe help around the weed stuff . Im not 100% but I think it can br linked with depression msking it worse?

I think it depends what you want to happen. Do you want the family to get some support and what do you want to change? What's likely to be the best way of achieving whatever you want to happen? Would it be by intervening yourself to take your niece out of the house or would it be something else?

I agree with you that your brother is a dick and pretty gross. And your friend at the nursery shouldn't be talking to you about your niece either. If she has concerns they should be raised through the correct channels within the nursery.

You know your "friend at nursery " could absolutely raise concerns about your neice, the nursery also have a duty of care,