I am NOT a dotty old woman

[LoserWinner]

Rant mode on:

I spent a long time yesterday trying to organise a cash withdrawal from a moribund pension to pay for a once-in-a-lifetime holiday. I’ve already jumped through all the administrative hoops. I explained right at the start that I have a generous defined benefit pension, a full state pension and part time professional consultancy work, which means I live comfortably within my means. I also detailed what I wanted the lump sum for.

The young chap on the other end of the phone obviously had to stick to his script to ask specific questions. I get that. But his whole approach, right down to his tone of voice, assumed I was innumerate, confused and unable to understand how uncrystallised funds pension lump sums work. Yes, I’ve spoken to Pensionwise. Yes, I’ve taken financial advice. Yes, I’ve taken into account the tax implications. No, I’m not going to live in penury if I reduce the pension pot. No, I’m not being scammed. This pension pot has been sitting there doing nothing except earning interest for 20 years or more, no payments in or out. But after every question he asked, he followed up with ‘are you sure you understand that?’, ‘do you want me to explain it more simply?’, or ‘you probably don’t realise that…’

I am a thoroughly numerate recently retired professional, who manages my finances efficiently and competently. I’m not a dotty old woman, and I am fed up with banks, insurance companies and other organisations and businesses assuming that my brain ceased to function on my 66th birthday.

I’m sure there are plenty of callers of all ages who may need advice, support and explanation, but it isn’t necessarily related to older age. I wish companies would train their public-facing staff not to make demeaning assumptions based on age alone, so that everyone is treated with courtesy and dignity.

That sounds hugely frustrating. Are you going to take any action?

I’m sure there are plenty of callers of all ages who may need advice, support and explanation, but it isn’t necessarily related to older age.

True. But given the nature of your call, I suspect callers of any age would be asked the same questions as you were.

Agism is still allowed, it seems, it’s absolutely everywhere. It isn’t trendy to respect older people and so much suffering and humiliation ensues. Tbh I think the discrimination flourishes because it doesn’t even believe the voices calling it out will be heard with any respect, so no chance of reprisal. I wish Age Concern ( or someone! ) would mount a campaign to raise awareness of this issue.
Im really sorry you were treated that way. It’s tripe, isn’t it!

I’m going to wait until the payment is sorted. Like every outfit, they will ask me to complete a review survey. I shall raise it then, and check the box saying I want a response. If I don’t get one, then I will escalate. I have endless patience, and an equal amount of persistence.

God, I'd be tempted to answer: Yes, dear, I am compos mentis and fully understood what you said, there is no need for you to explain it in simpler terms but I appreciate your dedication to ensuring old duffers don't get overly-easy access to their hard earned dosh.

I do think it’s a tough one - for any sort of financial bits you’re doing they really do have to over explain! I was trying to sort a pension move and a mortgage thing recently - I’m only in my 30s and my job on all applications shows “accountant” and I still have the people on the phone over explaining interest rates and things like that 😂

I think they do it to cover themselves in the case of someone trying to later claim they didn’t understand the implications, so if the recording shows multiple clear explanations and clarifications with the customer then it keeps them in the clear.

Hear hear, OP. I know exactly what you mean, and have experience of it too.

They use that insufferably patronising sing-song voice, don't they? You know the one - it's the same as on the telly adverts for walk-in baths and funeral expenses, and is also pretty much the voice one adopts when speaking to anybody under the age of four.

Some years back I was looking for quotes for my car insurance. I decided to call Saga for a quote as their adverts said they did good insurance at a low price for the over 50's. Jesus. Never again.

I genuinely wonder if there should be some kind of financial literacy test that everyone has to repeat every 5 years, with results visible to financial institutions. Therefore if you were 90 and financially competent you would have less checks than someone who is 30 and clueless.

When they ask me whether its Mrs, Miss or Ms and I tell them its Dr that usually sets the tone for the remaining conversation.

But it’s not about you OP and there is no need to take it personally.

You must be aware that many people of all ages are scammed and that these precautions are put in place to try to prevent that, particularly as in many cases banks are required to reimburse people if the bank has not taken sufficient precautionary measures.

The sing song voice that you complain about is because the person who is having to say this is first of all bored out of their nut by having to repeat it so often and second has to deal with frightfully intelligent people like you who take objection to being protected and whose voice gets detectably narky in response. They’re just doing their job so roll with it.

You won’t always be the savvy person that you are now and there will come a point where you are more vulnerable than you can imagine. Probably when that happens, you won’t recognise it, and you’ll still think that you are the remarkably aware person that you are now.

You seem to be expecting them to say “oh my goodness this is @LoserWinner our valued, notoriously independent, savvy and highly intelligent customer, therefore we need not to bother about our usual protective measures”: you are deluding yourself about your place in their scheme of things.

I am the same age or possibly older than you but sadly not as frightfully intelligent, as you can tell. So I am glad of these precautions, I have learned to expect them and we just get through them as smoothly as possible. That’s possibly not a very intelligent response but there you go.

Fewer would get car finance or a loan.
Maybe it's a good idea.

Brilliant response @HoppityBun

But it's driven by FCA and vulnerable customer rules - and whilst op is able to understand stuff you've only to read thread/post after post on here to see that many many people don't have even a basic understanding. I used to work in mortgage admin many years ago and I remember having to explain to a customer that yes he was charged interest on the money he borrowed and that was included in his monthly payment, he was resolute in his assertion that it couldn't be right.

Also a lot of customers are arses and will swear they weren't told stuff when they were and then try to make some spurious claim. And then again the people that are being scammed and have someone standing over them forcing them to make the call but sound to the person on the end of the 'phone perfectly plausible. It is a bit of a minefield. And then the human element which is if your mum/grandma does struggle and you are a member of staff then you will project. My mum wouldn't understand I don't think, I suggested she may want to open an ISA rather than have a lump sum in her current account but she'd have no idea how to do it.

These checks and warnings may appear tedious, and at first I found them a little intrusive. But I’m slower now, and very much appreciate how vulnerable I could be in the future. It lets me continue independently with my personal banking a bit longer than I might otherwise have done. Gives me confidence that they have my back.

I wouldn't take it personally.

In my experience whenever you're doing anything financial they always speak to you as if you're simple. I think they have to act like that with everyone just to cover themselves legally and to double check you understand and aren't going to claim, at a later date, that you were misled.

Your response was well thought out. I concur with your reasonable deduction x

I like it when bank staff etc talk me through the ins and outs and pros and cons of financial stuff like this. I am not unintelligent but it’s reassuring to check things through carefully with somebody else.

Every time I want to make a withdrawal from one of my pensions I have to phone up and beg. I then have to listen to their speil about why I shouldn't withdraw anything and do I realise the risks of having no money left yadda yadda 🙄 I don't know why I can't arrange it online. Why do I have to phone up to beg, argue and rationalise my need to some of MY money?

'You won’t always be the savvy person that you are now and there will come a point where you are more vulnerable than you can imagine.'

This isn't a given. My mother in law is 97 and is still sharp and quick witted. She uses her laptop, ipad and iphone, etc, daily, she banks online and is fully conversant with her finances and investments.

Of course there are people who do need help and this could be at any age, but it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone will become confused and vulnerable as they age.

I have to say that I find it incredibly annoying when it is assumed that because I'm 70 I need to be spoken to as if I'm a toddler to enable comprehension.

Yes. It's good they check people aren't being scammed.

I'm also over 70 BTW.

Sorry but I think you’re being unreasonable. I bet many people, in fact most, might not have as much knowledge as you do about what you want to do and the full implications. It’s impossible for them to know who understands it all and who doesn’t, so they have to assume no-one does, to be on the safe side. I don’t really see why you think it’s ageism.

I do get that it is a serious problem that many people, and it is especially older people, do get conned - and the swindlers are getting very, very good these days at using totally accurate seeming email addresses/phone numbers and so on.

But I do wonder if there is a way to make it less annoying. I was paying a large bill to some roofers (who I have used before) and literally had been told by the guy on the phone that he was sending me the invoice and he then whatsapped it to me immediately (so any scammer would have had to be remarkably fast to have intercepted that information and copied his number somehow) and the bank demanded I phone them and I had to have a 20-minute long phone call about was I absolutely sure this invoice was from them before they would let me pay the money!

I do find it frustrating OP. I have some professional financial qualifications, and yes I do mostly understand what I’m doing, and I’m 40 so I’m not old, but trying to do a large transaction via the bank I felt quite patronised!

BUT - I think they just have to cover themselves and explain the same to exactly everyone. Scams are everywhere and getting cleverer and in my personal experience many many people genuinely don’t understand financial matters.

I had a situation at work where someone had withdrawn a large amount of money from their pension in order to switch providers (this was in a different country but the same premise applies), instead of doing a transfer, they’d taken the money out and then paid into the new pension -creating a massive tax bill! The indignation that no one had explained this would happen to them and they were going to complain/ sue/ go mental at the pension company.

(I’m pretty sure it would’ve been explained when they made the transfer, but maybe it wasn’t?! I’ve no idea how they got on as I was just advising on their tax position and unsurprisingly they did not come back to us)

Why have you used the phrase "dotty old woman" when the questions asked of you would be asked of anyone?

If you are aware of banking safeguarding, then you are apprised of the steps required to safely navigate the system.

The 'young chap' 🤨 (did you ask his age?) didn't describe you as a 'dotty old woman'.

You enjoy that holiday of a lifetime @LoserWinner

I know why they feel they need to ask these questions and I see how it might be appropriate in many cases, but I would be interested to know whether they speak like this to everybody or just "old people"
As a recently retired teacher I know lots of young adults and their parents who are far more in need of this safeguarding than I am!