I am NOT a dotty old woman

[LoserWinner]

Rant mode on:

I spent a long time yesterday trying to organise a cash withdrawal from a moribund pension to pay for a once-in-a-lifetime holiday. I’ve already jumped through all the administrative hoops. I explained right at the start that I have a generous defined benefit pension, a full state pension and part time professional consultancy work, which means I live comfortably within my means. I also detailed what I wanted the lump sum for.

The young chap on the other end of the phone obviously had to stick to his script to ask specific questions. I get that. But his whole approach, right down to his tone of voice, assumed I was innumerate, confused and unable to understand how uncrystallised funds pension lump sums work. Yes, I’ve spoken to Pensionwise. Yes, I’ve taken financial advice. Yes, I’ve taken into account the tax implications. No, I’m not going to live in penury if I reduce the pension pot. No, I’m not being scammed. This pension pot has been sitting there doing nothing except earning interest for 20 years or more, no payments in or out. But after every question he asked, he followed up with ‘are you sure you understand that?’, ‘do you want me to explain it more simply?’, or ‘you probably don’t realise that…’

I am a thoroughly numerate recently retired professional, who manages my finances efficiently and competently. I’m not a dotty old woman, and I am fed up with banks, insurance companies and other organisations and businesses assuming that my brain ceased to function on my 66th birthday.

I’m sure there are plenty of callers of all ages who may need advice, support and explanation, but it isn’t necessarily related to older age. I wish companies would train their public-facing staff not to make demeaning assumptions based on age alone, so that everyone is treated with courtesy and dignity.

I do feel we have gone too far the other way. When we were looking to transfer our house deposit to the solicitor for our purchase a few months ago I had to sit in the bank for around 30 minutes as I had to speak to two different tellers in person and was then also made to speak to another staff member at their headquarters before they would approve the transfer. They all asked me exactly the same questions.

And I actually exited an online pension webinar we had at work because of how condescending the speaker was - he just kept repeating himself over and over as if we were stupid. And given the webinar was about AVCs for a DB pension it would have been nice to be able to actually have an intelligent conversation about investment options instead of having him constantly repeat himself about the differences between DB and DC pensions. I mean, if you don’t know the difference then surely a webinar about AVCs is too much for you to begin with?

It’s a shame that we seem to have lost the ability to have intelligent and informative conversations with most public institutions as they increasingly pander to the stupidest people in the room.

@KatsPJs

I don't think you understand the meaning of condescending. It’s a shame that we seem to have lost the ability to have intelligent and informative conversations with most public institutions as they increasingly pander to the stupidest people in the room.

I did the same recently (am in my sixties) and didn’t have any issues like that.

Hopefully it’s not too widespread!

Why don’t you try actually formulating a response in disagreement with my argument because I don’t know what your point is. It’s such a bugbear of mine on Mumsnet: if you are tagging me then can you please just say what you mean because I can’t read your mind.

I would have thought that a real person would have understood that.

In order to navigate either an online system or a system when you speak in person, each person has to be respectful which indicates responsibility.

Your argument was that you were treated in a condescending manner and yet you posted in a condescending way.

I genuinely have no idea what you’re talking about, or why you appear to be questioning my existence because I am a real person. In any case, good day to you because I literally have no idea of the point you’re trying to make and I cannot be bothered attempting to decipher it.

I respectfully rest my case.

The customer service representative is probably instructed to an inch of his life what he is expected to say, is likely "call coached" and expected to get a certain compliancy to get his bonus he is probably taking the questions literally and taking zero chance loosing his bonus/being able to eat.

From the sounds of it I would have found his tone more offensive?

You also need to consider pension funds make their money on the investments they do with your pension money. So they really don’t want you to withdraw! They would try to convince you as much as possible to keep them there!

The problem is more people don’t know than do know so they have to appease the masses. DH (late 30s and also not dotty) just moved a large amount of money around after his fixed term bond ended. The hassle they gave him about doing it meant he decided to move away from that bank as it was so incredibly frustrating.

however, as they now offer more protection should it go wrong, they need to protect themselves. The banks can’t really win here. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t lose my calm having these conversations with them.

I sympathise OP and am a similar age to you .Thankfully Compis Mentis (thank God!) However a little hard of hearing , so grateful for them to explain carefully.Not everyone is quite so savvy as you are OP! Also many people are the victims of sophisticated scams including Gloria Hunniford the glamorous and intelligent TV presenter .

Of course it’s irritating OP, but it has to be done.

My Mum was incredibly intelligent, savvy, brought up 2 kids on her own, Oxford educated, IQ off the scale, never taken in by smooth talkers etc. I never in a million years imagined she’d become vulnerable to scammers. But now, at age 85, I can see how easily it could happen. She’s still articulate, can hold a perfectly appropriate conversation with anyone, still very sharp - but her scammer radar has fallen off a cliff. All things financial make her very dithery. She doesn’t understand banking and interest and so on, and I’ve had to intercept scammers on a couple of occasions. It reassures me to know that if she tried to withdraw a large sum from her account, the bank would ask her lots of questions.

I’ll happily endure some tedious patronising if it means people like my Mum are protected.

I’m not sure it’s always to do with age, a few years ago in my 50s, I had to transfer a lot of money into a savings account. I wasn’t allowed to do it until I’d answered numerous questions over the phone. It took about 15 minutes!

I was reassured that they were checking and made me trust the bank more.

I was sent a letter about a private pension I had no idea i had that was a grand total of £750 and I was on the phone for nearly 40 minutes being asked all of the same questions . And when my response to many of the questions was ‘it’d only £750’ I was told that if I didn’t give proper answers that they wouldn’t be able to release my funds!

I get if it was a reasonable sum but honestly I won’t be living as destitute old age without the £5 a month I might be missing out on now

I had to go into a bank branch to arrange a large transfer recently. They went through a whole list of questions, including asking whether I thought somebody was watching me through the security cameras to compel me to make the transfer. I'm 51 and a chartered accountant. I understand they still need to ask these questions, because that's the rule.

BUT what the OP went through was different. The patronising tone and the "you probably don't understand, dear" follow-ups, even after she answered the formulated questions. Totally unacceptable.

Am very much like you. However maybe go easy unless he was really OTT and patronising. CSRs have to be trained to cater to the LCD ... they are left wide open for retaliation if anything goes wrong otherwise

It's not ageism. They have to ask.

I have it with a bank account. It would be quicker for me to go to the bank in person because of all the checks online.

Look at it this way, he doesn’t know you, he doesn’t know how much you d understand. He needs to ensure you know exactly you what you are doing and are not being exploited. I with my mum has been asked more questions when she withdrew £3,000 cash to hand over to a scammer. If the bank had asked just a few questions she might have paused.

This is the best response I've read.

There are plenty of people who aren't Dr's who are very intelligent and able, thank you very much!

Alot of this is driven by the FCA and companies/ advisers need to keep themselves safe! There are A LOT of people that pretend they were not made aware of the risks of doing something, withdrawing from investments such as pensions etc and then later complain to the FCA for it to sometimes be upheld. This causes many companies to implement laborious processes and details to protect themselves in the event of these occasions

They don’t know you and don’t know that.

I have a career because people (and the people I deal with have enough sense to be able to run their own business) get scammed.

Yes it’s annoying, it would be even more annoying if you were scammed out of your money.

If you’ve got endless patience, apply it to tolerating this sort of phone call with good grace. I’m 65 and have been doing pension stuff. I’m happy to put up with the questions and checks because they are there to protect people who aren’t as savvy as us.

Of course there are. But - rightly or wrongly - it can help cut through patronising crap in some circumstances. Not appropriate for the OPs case though, the ‘script’ is there for good reasons

The bank refused my mum service because they didn't believe she wasn't being coercively controlled?! Or that she was either lying or senile?!

They asked her loads of questions that she answered perfectly honestly and reasonably but they didn't believe her. Purely due to ageism in my opinion.

She made a complaint and they sent a shitty non apology 'sorry if you were upset...'

They treat customers like shite when the person is simply trying to gain access to their own money!