I am NOT a dotty old woman

[LoserWinner]

Rant mode on:

I spent a long time yesterday trying to organise a cash withdrawal from a moribund pension to pay for a once-in-a-lifetime holiday. I’ve already jumped through all the administrative hoops. I explained right at the start that I have a generous defined benefit pension, a full state pension and part time professional consultancy work, which means I live comfortably within my means. I also detailed what I wanted the lump sum for.

The young chap on the other end of the phone obviously had to stick to his script to ask specific questions. I get that. But his whole approach, right down to his tone of voice, assumed I was innumerate, confused and unable to understand how uncrystallised funds pension lump sums work. Yes, I’ve spoken to Pensionwise. Yes, I’ve taken financial advice. Yes, I’ve taken into account the tax implications. No, I’m not going to live in penury if I reduce the pension pot. No, I’m not being scammed. This pension pot has been sitting there doing nothing except earning interest for 20 years or more, no payments in or out. But after every question he asked, he followed up with ‘are you sure you understand that?’, ‘do you want me to explain it more simply?’, or ‘you probably don’t realise that…’

I am a thoroughly numerate recently retired professional, who manages my finances efficiently and competently. I’m not a dotty old woman, and I am fed up with banks, insurance companies and other organisations and businesses assuming that my brain ceased to function on my 66th birthday.

I’m sure there are plenty of callers of all ages who may need advice, support and explanation, but it isn’t necessarily related to older age. I wish companies would train their public-facing staff not to make demeaning assumptions based on age alone, so that everyone is treated with courtesy and dignity.

I second what Tonissister said.

I do think ageism has actually got much worse. I think it started with the hate on "boomers". It seems to be perfectly acceptable and even actively encouraged.

I have found that there can be an advantage in not always allowing people to realise how intelligent or well educated you are at first. Especially people who are jobsworths or little hitlers. Then when you answer them in your "teacher" voice and give them a look as though they were something unpleasant you just scraped off your show you can enjoy their discomfiture.

I’m not sure it’s ageism. I imagine it’s company policy. Perhaps you can contact them to ask if it is their policy?
If a ‘dotty old woman’ was scammed, or didn’t understand how it worked, there would be complaints, wondering how this could’ve happened, family demanding money is paid back etc. It’s protecting those who aren’t as savvy. Or don’t have the means to pay for a financial advisor.

Ok so you are educated about finance etc. But as you say, there’s a script to follow and how many times have we heard stories of well educated people of any age getting scammed? He doesn’t know you. He has to ask the questions. Skip a bit and he’ll get reprimanded I imagine. These calls are recorded. My stepson was fired on the spot when working at a call centre because he sold a product (some sort of phone package) to someone who couldn’t use it for some reason or other. These are highly regulated and they may sound patronising and obvious but it’s been shown time and time again that people often do not understand certain things, particularly to do with finance. You will just have to suffer through it for the sake of helping the many more who need that protection.

It is tedious and frustrating, but also necessary because as the old adage has it, "a fool and their money are soon parted". Fraud is the single largest criminal activity now, at between 35 and 40% of all crimes committed.

I don’t think it’s an age thing. People (women) of all ages have been scammed by romance scammers, unscrupulous builders, etc.

The bank have to check. Don’t take it personally.

Exactly this. DD is the regulatory training officer of a big bank. The FCA are notoriously strict with their rules, and if even the tiniest thing is missed, it results in a huge fine. We all know these things are hugely annoying, but if the rules protect even one person, then they are worth it.

I like you

I agree about Saga..Their holiday booking customer service and Insurance dept is terrible. They also don't get back to you

They rely on their old reputation from the Sixties as a company for older people who mainly lived on the English South Coast or near Gatwick Airport.

They are not really interested in anybody else

This must have been so annoying. My old supervisor from M&S (late 70s but still as sharp as she ever was) was given the third degree after going into the bank to withdraw some cash. Now I know they’re worried about scammy roofers and the like but they treated her like some sort of dimwit. Only for about 30 seconds though as she’s still incredibly fierce. I believe they actually tried to suggest she was required to say what the money was for and the bank staff would then decide if that was a reasonable use of her money - that did not go down well.

It wasn't so much the service - I never got that far - it was the staggeringly patronising attitude and the way they spoke to you in a "Come along now dear, let me explain in the simplest terms because you are too senile to understand it otherwise" kind of way.

I think there are certain questions that have to be asked by law. It wasn’t personal.

Do you really not know? If you don't, I'll explain.

Scammers - this is big business these days. They run enormous call centres, employ lots of people (who by the way think they are white collar workers) who are salaried and paid bonuses to steal your money. They are thieves - but get very upset when you tell them that. They are very plausible (they are practiced) and specifically target older people. That's not to say that people of all ages are not vulnerable - they are - but it is older people who are most likely to have access to the sums of money they are after so that's who they target.

The Government has brought about new regulations to hold banking and finance institutions partly liable for these frauds and responsible for reporting them. This is why banks have become more intrusive these days. They really need to know that you're aware of what you're doing.

It's a pain, I know, and does seem that we older people are being thought incompetent and incapable of knowing we're being scammed. But the truth is that if it were younger people being targeted, they would be subject to the same treatment. As for intelligence and awareness - the banks know better than any of us how good these thieves are at presenting themselves. I personally know several people who have been caught out by scams and only found out when their banks, suspicious about the payments, put a stop on them before speaking to the account holder.

I think a lot of it is around fraud prevention. This guy doesn’t know you, and whilst you may know you’re not a ‘dotty old woman’, he doesn’t know this. He also needs to ensure that you aren’t reading from a script given to you by someone who may be taking advantage (as in getting you to withdraw this additional funding). He cannot leave his company open to any blame that funding was released for fraudulent purposes without them making as sure as possible that you are aware of any consequences to your actions.

They’d get complaints if they didn’t give out all the information. And they do it at any age.

DH and I are 34 and last year he had a call from the bank about a large transfer he was trying to make from his account to a savings account that happened to be in my name (much higher interest rate so we put the money there, his interest rate had just dropped). They asked a bunch of similar questions, yes he was sure he wasn’t being scammed, yes he understood that even though we are married he wouldn’t be able to access the account in my name, no I wasn’t forcing him to say these things.

To be fair, I'm 20 years younger than you and I don't understand most of your OP so I think they have to assume that most people are coming at this with a basic understanding. It's not worth their hassle if it turned out you were getting scammed or similar and they listened back to the call and the call handler didn't do all the checks.

Well you might not have understood it, but it should have been blatantly obvious to the pensions administrator that the OP does have a thorough grasp of the matter and understood all of it more than well enough to make these decisions.

Which begs the question: why was she spoken to like she was a confuddled senile halfwit?

You have to realise that the vast majority of the population do not understand finances and pensions. The companies have to safeguard themselves and protect the policy holder. Saying that, given that you obviously have knowledge, the staff member dud not need to be condescending. I've not experienced this attitude and am also taking pension funds.