Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Was she always like this or did her behaviour change? Does it get worse with any triggers like illness?

Are you able to afford to pay privately for an assessment? We went down this route with our eldest as the waiting list was so long and the help we got was invaluable.
I would also discreetly film what is going on, because if school aren’t seeing anything you need to evidence the behaviour yourself.
Our Sons school didn’t see anything either apart from social difficulties but when he got home he just fell apart, we couldn’t really get him to do anything and although he wouldn’t physically hurt us, he would throw things and scream/shout.
It sounds very difficult and as others have suggested what you are describing does fit with PDA.
My son was always apologetic after and it broke my heart because in the moment it’s so hard to know what to do and it was affecting his siblings, the youngest was scared of him.
We are now a few years after our Autism diagnosis, and things have settled down a lot especially because secondary school is a lot more regimented then primary with very black and white expectations which our child thrives on.
I also now leave him to decompress for a good hour once he gets back before raising the subject of doing anything and depending on what sort of day he’s had, I try and phrase things in a certain way.
The biggest thing that the consultants helped us with is to see that he wasn’t ‘naughty’ or being difficult for the sake of it and disciplining him like we would our others ie if you don’t do this then you can’t do that/lose a certain privilege wasn’t working because he wasn’t not doing it because he didn’t want to, he just couldn’t at that time…
There are some great suggestions on here, if you do have a family member that can offer some respite/sleepover I would definitely ask, but not frame it as a punishment/being sent away.
My Son loves a sleepover at his Grandparents still, he is quite an old soul so enjoys their company and life is quieter in their house.

while you are waiting for assessment yiu can join whatever the relevant support group(s) is/are. Eg if you think she has ADHD and autism, join the networks. As well as going on to the Mind website and others (CYP Haven?). Also look at www.hubofhope.co.uk. - an online directory i If support advicecsnd ciunselling for huge range of topics. Don’t wait for assessment to get support as it sounds really difficult for yiu all right now. Also, look for books that can be helpful in parenting your child with the they difficulties that they face. Your parenting will need to be different to how you parent your other two DC, but this IS fair - I had to learn either DD to parent to her needs, not my expectation and ideals. Best of luck for all of you

For a child, who's only experienced of violence is administering it, realising the painful consequences of violence might not be a bad thing.

Sorry OP this sounds horrific to live with.

girls Who mask at school and get good grades go to the bottom of the assessment list. We went private and have no regrets. Yes it is expensive, but this is your child and you are considering giving her up. You need to be proactive.

For the time being I would also just start operating your home as if she has ASD/adhd or both. Just presume she is neurodivergent with a pda profile and parent the way a child with that diagnosis needs to be parented.

send her to military school,
fixed me right up!!

My God, that is dreadful!

And what do you think will happen to her then? There are no emergency foster placements. They don't exist. What will happen is the child will be abandoned, scared, lonely, probably very dysregulated, spend hours in a social services office while harassed social workers phone all around the child's family trying to find someone to take her - finally at 9pm they will find some random agency carers who will take her to a hotel and stay with her until the next day when she'll be dropped back at social services office for the drama to happen again - worst case scenario is she gets so dysregulated the police have to be called and she ends up spending the night in a police station with coppers looking after her because nobody else can manage it. This is just NOT the way to get help for you or your child.

An OT assessment is more like £400+ but agree that they are very useful.

Get social services involved, ask for respite. I work with children in care, some sound just like your dd. Its exhausting and we have a team of staff to swap out with when it gets too much. It must be terrible on your own with little support.
Seek help/counselling from your gp and document everything. Record what you can.
Section 20 is a last resort but if she is putting your other children in manager, you have to safeguard them.

Op if she can behave at school there must be something else going on. Do you ever have one on one time with her as a middle child you do get pushed down the line first child then middle then baby. Op I would try to help her rather than push her away because she can behave but she chooses not to at home. Op maybe this is her way of getting your attention. It’s not ideal but if she was behaving bad all the time then fair enough but it’s not. If you gave her up you will ruin her life forever rejecting her will traumatise her she doesn’t deserve that does she. I understand you’re struggling but you brought her into the world you can’t just toss her aside because she’s not like the other 2. How did she behave before the new addition?

It is not the way you should have to get help for a child, I fully agree. It is absolutely shit.

These days however you have to be in beyond dire straits to get any help. Playing nicely and spending years waiting on a list gets you nothing. You can be safely ignored if you do that.

I’d take out a loan and go private if you can’t afford it.

But when the alternative is giving your child up...

Right to Choose is a good option, my daughter used the process for ADHD assessment- waiting time reduced from 5 years to six weeks!! It’s all online anyway.
yiu can out a child in care if yiu need protect yourself snd family. My mum asked for my sister to be out in care when did was 15. It was the best thing for all of us (big family) and sister actually enjoyed it snd calmed down. Different situation to the poster’s one tho as sis was older and don’t think we’d heard of adhd or autism back then - early 80s. But a different environment with the right support could help.

I'm so sorry op!
I've been there with my son. I have scars all over my arms off him.
going through it, in the moment, is so fucking hard.

Sending you lots of love, I know how many tears you will have cried.
Once DS was asleep I would go in and lie with him to cuddle him as that was my only chance to feel close to him.
i had to change my approach to him. I can't say to him, X can you do this please. I have to say things like which would you like to do first x or x? So he feels in control and has choices.

i haven't read full thread but, is she atleast on SEN register at school?
is there a school nurse?
referral to early help team
speak with GP

take care of yourself

Surely with this level of violence and her whole family being terrified in their own homes she is quite dangerous

I believe you can get your child adopted/sectioned/into respite care.

But I come from a country where the well being of parents and other family members is prioritised and always has been.

Are your other children boys ?
Could she be going through very early puberty and hormones are affecting her ? (Not suggesting anything untoward if the others are boys , just that you wouldn't have experienced this with your eldest ?)

Obviously nothing. She has just sat on her arse and done nothing. Bloody stupid question to someone who is really struggling.

Parents have a right to be safe as well as children. Phone social services for help.

Whether or not she is neurodiverse, you don't deserve to be assaulted by your child.

I would have thought a child with PDA would have difficulties at school also. PDA is a fairly extreme form of demand avoidance and it's unlikely she could be masking this all day. Maskng in girls is generally associated with high functioning autism.

Maybe try this helpline? https://riseuk.org.uk/get-help/about-domestic-abuse/child-to-parent-abuse

There are more alternatives like changing your child parenting/management techniques to better suit the child. Read up, whether PDA, autism etc. do online courses. 5 years ago I did a 20 hour free online course with Open University - autism awareness. It was amazing and realty really helped me understand DD and her struggles. That in turn enabled me to review the way I interacted with her. We had a journey, but she is bashing down her barriers, learned about herself, I’ve leaned about her and my communication style and we have improved our relationship by about 90%.

Op you said you’ve being going through this for 8 years, but she’s only 8, so thay can’t be correct. When did this start and what do you both do to correct it?