Ds is five and can’t use cutlery

[toohotwiththeheatingon]

He uses his fingers generally; it’s awful when you see him grabbing fistfuls of food 🤢

I’ve just lost it with him after half his dinner ended up on the floor. Seriously feel like I’ve got a weaning baby.

Not sure what to do tbh.

You seem to be avoiding the questions of a) whether he finds any other fine motor skills tricky and b) whether you have actually sat with him and taught him to use a knife and fork. Both of these things are relevant.

Is that he he can’t use a knife and fork or is that he he can but chooses not to?

Does he have school dinners? Presumably they would notice if he was eating with his fingers at school.

Edit: Just seen you say you have shown him and he’s seen his siblings use cutlery. That doesn’t sound like much guidance tbh. You need to sit with him and make him persevere.

I’m not avoiding any questions I promise; just multi tasking so missing stuff.

Fine motor skills isn’t his forte - he doesn’t massively enjoy crafts or colouring but he has got a lot better since starting school. At the last parents’ evening his teacher did mention his cutting skills with scissors were pretty poor but that was back in October.

Why can't you sit with him? Good that he is getting positive example of older siblings, but in my experience children learn the best table manners when they are sharing a meal with their parents. If he is expected to eat unsupervised by you then I'm not surprised that progress is slower than it might be. I know someone parents CHOOSE to eat separately but it is a choice.

If he struggles consistently with these sorts of tasks, you might want to look into dyspraxia and consider whether he might need assessing.

I’m dyspraxic and I would definitely have benefited from diagnosed as a child - I’m not saying your lad is dyspraxic, but it would be worth you reading up on it a bit and seeing if you think he could fit the bill.

Good luck with the new cutlery; hope it helps!

Sibling is younger!

They sit at a child’s table - ds wouldn’t sit at the big dining room table so I got a small one. But it is way too small for me!

DH generally is away a lot so I do find I usually eat my dinner when they’re in bed. So maybe it is my fault. It’s hard knowing what’s best.

I would look at getting booster seats or similar to allow you to eat together because that really will help.

talk to school about his fine and gross motor skills and try to build activities in which will help these as part of your day. Don’t make it a chore but it can be done in a fun way.

Also a resistance band around the table legs can help if he is wriggly in a normal chair as it gives his feet something to do!

Mine is 7 and has similar problems as you've outlined - difficulties with cutlery, writing/colouring, scissors etc. He's been under OT for his fine motor skills for years. Have a look at exercises you can do to strengthen his hands and improve his fine motor skills and consider a self referral to OT if he is really struggling. Our OT is delivered in ways he doesnt realise its happening - board games with fiddly pieces, playdoh, lego, decorating cakes etc.

Our 2 and 4 yr old have babybjorn boosters
They are cheap 2nd hand on vinted and very easy..

I just dont get what you are feeding him
Our staples are spaghetti bol, pasta bake, shepherds pie, cottage pie, fish pie, a roast dinner, risotto.

Scissor games are good for motor skills
We have a snipping game thing both of mine enjoy ..snip snip

@SalmonOnFinnCrisp normal meals, I promise! Tonight was stir fry; yesterday was salmon, mashed potatoes and peas, Thursday cottage pie, Wednesday roast chicken with veg, Tuesday pasta bolognaise (spaghetti is too hard to eat) … Monday was pizza (I made it; I didn’t order a dominoes) Sunday was roast again, nothing remarkable!

I might look into a fidget band, he is very wriggly.

Parents evening is in a couple of weeks and I’m going to ask his teacher then -
she is very nice so I’m sure she’ll help.

Make him sit at the big table, give himma booster or a raised chair or whatever.

Cut his food for him into bite sized pieces for now a d absolutely insist he holds the cutlery to eat things... Then move on to things like scooping for curry etc

Problem is if he won’t sit there it’s tricky.

We have a booster seat but he seems a bit big for it - he had it as a very little toddler, not sure he’d be thrilled about that.

The first step is working out if he can’t or won’t as those are two different problems. And consider transitioning to the proper table for dinner - we had a small table to but mostly for lunch and snacks, dinner was all together. Get a taller seat so he’s at the right level and eat together.

if he can’t then you need to teach him and find out what the problem is. If he won’t it’s a discipline issue and that’s a different approach.

Well just a cushion or something for now would do.

Get rid of the small table that is too low for you to sit at and get all of you sitting at the table together. You are letting him not sit at the table, it is not his decision it should be yours. You just have to decide how much effort you are willing to put into improving the situation.

Does he like stickers?

Does he have school dinners? Can he do things like Lego, hold a pen? Have you worked out whether right or left handed?

Some children need more direct input that others.

My DS(10) is dyspraxic and dyslexic and has ASD and really really struggled with cutlery but it's a none negotiable now and has been since he was about 5- before that I'd cut his food and he could use a spoon or fork.

He still needs frequent support and physical reminders of how to hold and use the cutlery. He also struggles with getting the food in his mouth due to poor proprioception, he can't help it and it'll only come with time, practice and concentration, the latter is dependent on how much other stuff he has going on at any given time.

So basically what I'm saying is you're going to have put in some effort. The only consequence we put in place is removing his food if he refuses to use his cutlery (hasn't happened in years now, happened frequently in the early days, his dinner plate was like a yo-yo) exactly how strict I am depends on the overall mood of the day, to the point on really bad days, I'll change the meal plan to a finger food dinner (burritos, tacos, sushi) to prevent him failing.

Before you start trying sticker charts and all the rest of it - have you actually just tried consistently telling him every single time he uses his fingers that he needs to stop and use his fork and spoon? I work in EYFS and every year only about 10% of my children come to me using a spoon and fork - many of them don’t even use their fingers and just sit waiting to be fed as this is the norm in the country I currently work in. I just make it a complete non negotiable as it’s something I think is very important, I sit next to them whilst they eat and every single time they use their fingers I tell them to stop and use the fork or spoon. By Christmas they can all do it except children who have difficulties in general with fine motor skills which obviously is a different story and a different approach needed. Keep verbally reminding - be relentless about it. The only thing that will make it easier to use the fork is practice so you need to put him in a position where he has no choice but to practise.

Just FYI using food as reward / punishment is a really bad idea and several studies claim it devalues the dinner food in the child’s mind so that even if they liked the meal before once you do this it’s now re-categorised as ‘chore/bad’ food in contrast to the dessert which is now ‘desired/good’ food. This method trains children to want sweets and not want dinner!

To be fair I don’t think ds needs much encouragement to see sweets as a reward!

He wasn’t the best eater until he was maybe three and a half so I think before that I just fell into the trap of ‘as long as he’s eating’ but tonight was pretty bad, broccoli all over the floor 😩

I do remind him @coconutbiscuit but often I am ignored.

He likes Lego. He has school dinners. I do remember his teacher mentioning him slouching in his chair at school dinners but this was way back in September. I think he’s got better if the front of his jumper is anything to go by. I suspect lazy.

My son is dyspraxic (and autistic) and struggled at 5... still struggles at 15.

99% of the time we eat at the kitchen table.
We've tried so much cutlery... he still favours the plastic IKEA.
He had booster seats for years, we then moved to a wobble cushion that he still uses. It stops him sliding off sideways.
He's always struggled with mark making and developing legible hand writing.
He still has a weak sense of left/ right, and weak sense of his dominant hand.
Loves fiddly stuff like Lego and now Warhammer, but it hasn't really transferred to good grip strength. Other play such as dough is also helpful for fine motor control and using tools.
Struggles with team sports/ games, prefers solo activities like running (less to process)

It was becoming noticable at 5, but he'd still made little progress by 7 and we were doing a lot of "right" things but he just hasn't picked skills up in the usual way, plus we have the complication of autism making him resistant to trying new strategies and adapting. We had one OT appointment shortly after diagnosis.

First you need to make sure that you are covering all the parenting basics that give a NT child chance to learn before assessments will be taken seriously. They'll also be done when a child is past the age that a NT child will have picked them up.

Thanks @BogRollBOGOF , I’m definitely going to mention it at parents evening. He’s got better but maybe I should encourage more.

I have 3 ,now grown up ,children and this is probably the only part of parenting I got right. I wanted food and eating to be stress free and pleasurable for them and us as parents, so every meal was at the table as a family, it was relaxed, we talked about fun things, what was going on in their lives etc.

All 3 of them are ND between them they have ADHD, Autism, dyspraxia and allergies, so I allowed them to fidget and sit on their legs, but all the way through every meal I would encourage them to hold their knife and fork properly and help them cut their food up. It honestly took until they were about 10 years old until they properly mastered it and that was every meal at the table. You have to be boringly consistent and you will feel that you are making no progress.

My husband worked away when they were very small and I found it far easier to sit them at the table while I was making dinner with some activity and then eat with them. As they got older it was a no phones rule for everyone and they all say now how they appreciate the family dinner times we had together.

For the next two weeks only give them food that can be eaten with a spoon. And insist he uses it given that he can. Sticker for every meal eaten with just the spoon. Set him up to succeed, not fail. Introduce fork, or spork, once he’s comfortable using spoon and consistently not using fingers. Leave the knife till he’s older.

I would reward him for using it properly rather than punish him for not. Also I don't think it's unusual to need food cutting up at five.