Ian Huntley has died

[Viviennemary]

That's according to BBC news. Can't say I'm sorry.

Yes, so I feel the focus shouldn't be on prison conditions. The focus should be on preventing people from ending up in those prisons in the first place, by creating a more equitable society. Then, when fewer people are going to prison, it's easier to make sure they're humane.

I do get what you're saying, and don't entirely disagree - having better prisons can be an indication of a better society (by no means one that's equitable), but I think that the way a society treats its women, children, and disabled is far more indicative of whether it's civilised than how it treats its (mostly) male criminals.

then society cannot have capitalism becuase thats one of the main reasons for unequal society

So how do you explain inequality in pre capitalist societies?

The focus should be on preventing people from ending up in those prisons in the first place, by creating a more equitable society. Then, when fewer people are going to prison, it's easier to make sure they're humane.

Completely agree that we need to spend more resource on prevention. I see decent prisons as part of prevention too (the greatest cost of offending is reoffending, about 80%). But yes, stopping people ending in prison in the first place is essential.

‘having better prisons can be an indication of a better society’

I don’t think I quite said that. Dangerous prisons contribute to a dangerous society, but there are many other contributory factors.

but I think that the way a society treats its women, children, and disabled is far more indicative of whether it's civilised than how it treats its (mostly) male criminals.

I don’t really understand this. It’s far easier for society to treat the vulnerable well (someone has already said). But also you haven’t listed men at all, so in your view society should treat women and children and disabled people well, but able bodied men, who cares? I fail to see how that would lead to a healthy society without male violence.

they had similar to capitalism but we didnt call it capitalism

basically control is in human dna

In regards to your last point, I mean that it's apparently not easier for society to treat the vulnerable well, because it doesn't. There's a massive positive bias towards men (especially white men). Even when they abuse and rape, people are all too keen to defend them, cover things up, disbelieve the victims, or give them a slap on the wrist – while women and children get crumbs.

I wouldn't disagree with that, on the face of it. Socialism as a concept makes far more sense – unfortunately human nature means that works out even less well than capitalism, in practice.

thats the problem its not socialism itself its humanity thats the issue

I just think you’re wildly oversimplifying. There are huge protections for the vulnerable in society (though agree they often fail and could be better still). And while men do experience many advantages, there are also many ways in which men (especially poor men) suffer. Male suicide rates, deaths from some cancers and from cardiovascular disease, and the risk of being a victim of violence are all higher for men. Educational outcomes for white boys are appalling. So I’m not sure that we do take care of men really, and that’s evident in the life histories of almost all men convicted of serious violence - just as it is for women. But nobody wants to hear it about men.

I think many women are probably of the opinion that male on male violence shouldn't be their problem to deal with - they have their hands full with male on female violence.

Besides, I think it's disingenuous to try to argue that poor men don't have advantages over poor women, and rich men advantages over rich women, etc. Particularly when one controls for other factors, and compares like with like, the male sex always fares better than the female.

All you need to do to see that is look at the sexual assault statistics for England and Wales, where:

• 20% of women and 4% of men have experienced some type of sexual assault since the age of 16
• 3.1% of women and 0.8% of men aged 16 to 59 had experienced sexual assault in the last year
• Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men aged 16-59 experience rape, attempted rape or sexual assault by penetration in England and Wales every year

I just don't think that having nice prisons will help that. But we're veering well off topic, here.

Yeah right.

Just off topic slightly here but I just want to thank @OtterlyAstounding and @Allisnotlost1 amongst others earlier on this thread for the insight and intelligent discussion about this difficult subject. Compared to some of the ghoulish vigilantism and bloodlust I’ve read on here as well, it’s been really interesting (& before anyone jumps on me, I’m not defending Huntley 🙄but I agree with the first or second PP @CurlewKate that a prison system where one violent prisoner can murder another (and even worse be held up as some kind of hero) is not a good thing at all).

Yep. Giving a few people more control rarely works out well.

Of course having ‘nice prisons’ won’t solve any of that, and it’s quite odd that you keep making that connection since no one has made that argument.

It’s easy to say male on male violence isn’t women’s problem, but tell that to mothers whose sons, brothers, partners, fathers are victims of other men. We should be perfectly capable of caring about problems that don’t affect us directly.

But yes, far off topic now.

I think the big thing about that comment is saying he went for justice - no he didn’t. Not a single part of me believes he did this as justice for those beautiful girls .

It was prison violence. Just part of that life acc to my neighbour who worked in prisons. Huntley's killer wasn't some random prisoner. He was a stone killer. Huntley had apparently been parading about in a Man U shirt which was associated with his victims, so maybe flaunting his notoriety.

Tell it like it is. Look at the inmates of Frankland or Wakefield, no shortage of child killers there. Sidney Cooper is 98 and tried to get parole last year. I read their crimes and there is no remorse. They cross that line and that's it. Prison is an occupational hazard for them. I'd prefer an express elevator straight to Hell was available

Has Huntley been cremated yet ?

He's simply rotting in hell.