Dying and the NHS

[TheAmusedQuail]

This week, my elderly neighbour (history of heart problems) needed an ambulance. His wife called 999 and they told him the wait was 5 hours. The operator advised him to go to the local GP surgery which is a 5 minute walk away (2 min drive).

He died in the waiting room. The horror of the lack of help available to us in emergencies is like that of an undeveloped country. Today, I read about a man having a heart attack in A&E in the UK. He was left, rolling on the floor in agony, turning blue in the face and frothing at the mouth, in front of his family.

I'm not young, although not yet elderly. I'm terrified that there will be no help available, given that I'm getting older. I know it isn't just my neighbour, or the man I read about, or me. It's all of us. But I'm very scared.

Curious to know how cancer is lifestyle influenced.

If you refer to lung cancer, then half of cases are amongst never smokers.

And even if they are smokers, you will never know if that’s what caused the cancer

There are a lot of cancers where lifestyle factors (smoking, obesity, eating carcinogenic foods) increases your risk. Doesn’t mean that you’ll necessarily get them or avoid them, but reducing risk would reduce the number of cases.

For instance, if your figures are accurate and half of lung cancer cases are in never smokers, then if everyone was a never smoker then the current number of lung cancer cases would be lower than it is now.

I'd vote for some dimwits not getting treatments at much younger age

or it might also mean that smoking isn't necessarily the main reason. I'd direct you to multiple cancer threads on here. Could be very educational for you.

The level of ignorance and frankly stupidity on this thread is shocking

Isn’t it just - scary how many people go against established science

No. It's terminally ill people with short prognosis only. Read it, because you clearly haven't.
This kind of scaremongering is irresponsible.

It is more like 15% of lung cancer cases are in people that never smoked. Smoking causes different types of cancer in various areas of the body.

Admittedly it’s not quite in your age group, but my friend had an out of the blue heart attack aged 82. Before that she was slim, non smoker, non drinker, did yoga, never owned a car so walked a lot, had never been on any long term medication. Then bang. Heart attack. Needed stents fitted and is now on long term meds. But you’re saying if that had happened to her 3 years later she should have been left to die? She’s now 84 and despite the heart attack and meds she’s back to her yoga and living her life exactly as before. But I guess after her next birthday she’s pointless and may as well be left to die.

The fact is one day your own children may well be 85. So I’m sure you’ll be happy for them to be left to die of a preventable cause?

By the way do these 85+ year olds get any pain meds in their potentially long and agonising deaths? My friends said her heart attack was so painful at one point she was begging them to kill her. If she was 85 should they have done that? Or left her screaming? What would be the protocol there?

If anyone gets to 85, that should be it. They should not receive life saving treatment unless they want to pay for it themselves.

To late to edit to add - so what to we do with David Attenborough then? he clearly exceeded his allowance. Or Judi Dench? I've read she's still getting some medical treatments for her AMD? must stop then? it isn't even life saving.

It massively needs an overhaul imo

My poor gran was left in a corridor on her chair for 7 hours before she was seen. She had a water infection and she was never the same afterwards.

When they eventually seen her she ended up in a coma and her machines were switched off. She lived though! But she wasn’t the same person, and she had came out riddled with bedsores and stinking off urine.

I don’t agree with the assisted dying bill. But neither to I agree with interventions to prolong the lives of the old and frail.

The NHS is a money pit and needs radical reform

So what? Of course people should aim for healthy lifestyles, I'm not challenging this at all.

But I am challenging idea of offering medical treatments to "deserving ones" only. Where to we draw the line? sport injuries - should we treat them or not? they are obviously lifestyle related.
Should we treat disabled children who won't ever live independent life?
Should we priorities treating those who benefit society most? e.g. higher taxpayer will get at the top of the queue and unemployed benefit claimants at the very bottom?

It all depends though.

My DF was found blue faced and unresponsive in a public place. Paramedics were there right away.

I found the PP about elderly people being denied care from air ambulance really sad. My grandad had a massive stroke (late 80s) and had an air ambulance out. It was more to get the staff to him fast, than get him to hospital (and he passed anyway). Also had fire brigade out as his house was awkward to access.
Everyone involved pulled out all the stops to get him seen.

in my opinion my step father died from euthanasia via nhs. That was some years ago. This week my friend’s mother is suffering what looks to be a similar fate. The nhs is a brilliant concept but needs total overhaul.

This.

I took my mum to A&E because her GP surgery just wasn’t listening to her, despite a known issue that she was waiting ages for treatment. The known issue was gallstones, but had a couple in her bile duct which meant that surgery was a tiny bit more complicated.

Over a couple of months she kept getting fobbed off with her symptoms of pain and nausea. In the end, I took her to A&E as it wasn’t right that a woman in her 70’s was being fobbed off with advice such as “just pop to the pharmacy and get some peppermint oil capsules, that will help ease the nausea”.

That visit to A&E resulted in a multitude of tests and, just over 3 weeks later, we were told that mum had a very rare and aggressive cancer that was terminal.

She died two months later. Unfortunately, she had the temerity to start dying at the weekend. In our hospital, there is no palliative care team at the weekends. It was horrific trying to keep mum calm, try to chase nurses for more meds and waiting ages (whilst feeling guilty as I knew they were run off their feet).

I find it awful that there isn’t palliative staff available 7 days a week. And it’s made me nervous about what happens to me when my time comes . My pets had a more dignified death than my mum, my last hours with her still haunt me.

Every hospital should have a palliative team available 7 days a week.

I want to add that I cannot praise the A&E staff enough. After that first visit, we had to present there another 3 times. They were, mostly, amazing (one patronising idiot excepted).

What I’ve struggled with is the fact that I shouldn’t have had to take mum to A&E for this in the first place - but I was desperate and frustrated that she wasn’t being listened to. I felt guilty for using A&E resources.

IMO A&E should be for emergencies - heart attacks, strokes, falls from a height, severing limbs with power tools, car accidents, etc. not because your bloody surgery isn’t listening to how ill you are feeling.

A&E were amazing with my mum, especially after the first visit and they knew on subsequent occasions what was wrong with her.

There are a lot of cancers where lifestyle factors (smoking, obesity, eating carcinogenic foods) increases your risk

About 4 in 10 cancers are linked to lifestyle, there’s sn odd narrative now that all cancers are lifestyle related. Being healthy doesn’t mean you won’t get it.

That is NOT the purpose of assisted dying legislation. Go away and educate yourself before making silly, ignorant statements.

Why would you assume that the poster cares any more about Judi dench than any other person over 85?

I also am an 'elder orphan', although the health system here doesn't sound as bad as it is in the UK - but it could well be by the time I need it.

Its a myth that social care block beds, used to be true but is now the quickest way to get social care.
People have always developed T2 diabetes and is not always lifestyle led. Sometimes T2 can be managed by diet anyway which T1 cant

Everybody (that's the aim) has a Respect form and it always limits treatment. It's another myth that older frail people are life prolonged, quite the opposite.

It is awful but to be honest even if he’d been in a&e chances are outcome will be the same. People regularly die in the waiting room of our a&e.

dd had serious cardiac issues a few years ago, to the extent we knew she could have a cardiac arrest at any point. She had severe chest pain one day, i didn’t even bother ringing 999. I got her to a&e within 15 mins, she is screaming with chest pain. They have a qualified nurse in reception assessing urgency. I to,d her DD’s history. We were directed to sit in a chair. She screamed for over 20 mins in agony while i politely went back and told the nurse I was worried she was going to have a cardiac arrest. Still didn’t get anywhere. I guess if all the cubicles are full then they’re full and there’s nothing they can do. Until your heart actually stops and you need cpr nobody will come and help.