Dying and the NHS

[TheAmusedQuail]

This week, my elderly neighbour (history of heart problems) needed an ambulance. His wife called 999 and they told him the wait was 5 hours. The operator advised him to go to the local GP surgery which is a 5 minute walk away (2 min drive).

He died in the waiting room. The horror of the lack of help available to us in emergencies is like that of an undeveloped country. Today, I read about a man having a heart attack in A&E in the UK. He was left, rolling on the floor in agony, turning blue in the face and frothing at the mouth, in front of his family.

I'm not young, although not yet elderly. I'm terrified that there will be no help available, given that I'm getting older. I know it isn't just my neighbour, or the man I read about, or me. It's all of us. But I'm very scared.

@drivinmecrazy but a stroke is an emergency so why wouldn’t you phone 999?

Quite a few health professionals on here have said the problem is beds being blocked up the chain. So A&E can't get patients into the appropriate wards/places as they are all full. They are all full as people with MH issues or elderly waiting on a care plan have nowhere to go.

So ambulances wait for A&E to clear.
A&E waits for the other wards to clear
Other wards are waiting for social care to sort places for elderly residents or MH residents.

I actually watched documentary on You Tube about a hospital in London and they kept having to cancel procedures even though the surgeon and theatre etc were all ready and standing by because the patient would need a bed in the HDU or Intensive Care and there were none. It did seem to me that having more beds in these two wards would save a fortune in wages from surgeons sitting about waiting to get the go ahead.

On another note and this should be lighthearted but it isn't. I was watching this documentary and then i switched to Netflix where I am watching ER. As I watched ER I realised I was saying to myself Oh that looks quite organised and oh it's not too busy, the aisles are quite empty. I was literally comparing a drama series of a hospital in America where uninsured people go with our own hospitals and it was our hospital that looked like the made up drama series with patients dumped everywhere, the police getting called constantly for drunk, violent or mentally ill people and just total chaos. That was a bit of a sobering moment when I realised I had been impressed at the calm and organisation of the ER emergency dept compared to our own real hospitals.

So it seems we need more beds for elderly (cottage hospitals?), more places for MH people and more beds in HDU/ICU.

Dr Greene, Dr Greene where are you. Please come and show our NHS how it is done.

Because it was during the pandemic, I was 49 so thinking maybe it wasn’t a stroke.
my symptoms stared quite mildly, I couldn’t pick up my cup of tea then by the time I got into the ambulance I couldn’t walk.
happened very quickly.
hadn’t had a stroke before 😂

@drivinmecrazy ok, you didn’t have any classic symptoms so didn’t realise.

Strokes really aren’t that unusual in your 40s tbh.

I know exactly which documentary you mean, it was surprising.

but the thing is beds doesn’t really mean “bed”- a space to lay on a bed- it means the ward doesn’t have the resources to take you (ie in ICU it’s a an icu nurse per patient- you can fit as many beds and machines as you like in, if their aren’t enough nurses that’s that)

then you have places like psychiatric hospitals which literally reach capacity in terms of bedrooms available which again is just a component of resource planning.

Ending your life terrified of a care home is heart breaking. Noone wants to live 96 years to end it like that.

my own nan was similar- constant phone calls from the ward begging us not to put her in a home. She died on the operating table wchih was so much better

But you wouldn't want to work in a care home or in social care, so who do you think would work in them, even if we did have them?

We need to priortise young people. Old people have had their lives and I say that as an old person. I am grateful for the life I have had and do not want to be kept alive just because I can be by medical science as that is selfish.

And old people should be allowed to die when the time is up, not kept alive just because they can.

And I am an old person before anyone says that I am ageist.

I agree that care work pay is shit and as I said people don’t want to pay what it costs.

We have prioritised the old over the young for a long time so I can’t see that changing tbh.

I agree

The NHS needs a bigger budget so it can finally clear its backlog of cases, rebuild the hospitals which are actually crumbling and employ more permanent staff so that less money is wasted on employment agencies.

I personally don't want a co-pay system, as I don't think we should be funnelling billions into insurance companies and their additional layers of bureaucracy. Also, I fear that some patients would always fall through the cracks, e.g. those who have fallen on hard times or who have recently changed jobs.

But if that's the system most people want, then that's OK, I suppose. I just want the NHS to be funded to the same level as the healthcare systems in most other western countries.

There was a thread the other day about a woman’s husband and toddler who had eaten out of date sushi
they’d just eaten it they were fine not ill or anything and people on here were telling them to go to A+E
my sister used to do HCA shifts in A+ E so by default because she wasn’t qualified she got the time wasters and people who had absolutely no need to be there to deal with
loads that required nothing more than very basic first aid

there a post on her about someone who works in A+E and someone came in with verruca

gosh, that’s shocking. That call handler should be sacked, how could they be that incompetent? My husband had a fall on ice a few months ago, early morning, a bystander called 999 and an ambulance was at the scene in 20 minutes. We were both very impressed, straight to A & E, hip fracture diagnosed, total hip replacement within 24 hours. He has also needed a Dexa bone scan and an MRI in recent weeks, both appointments came through within a week of referral so the NHS can get it right.

That doesn't seem too terrible to me. Dying isn't going to be fun or easy for anyone. Living to your 90s and being able to be independent in your own home until a year or two before you die seems like a perfectly reasonable way to end your life to me . A long life with a relatively short period of difficulty and physical hardships

Much less frightening to me than 20 years of dementia. My mother had similar. Yes her 6 months in hospital and the last two years in a care home as a result of a bad fall were not ideal but it was a good home and she still got a lot of pleasure from her life despite a couple of hospitalisation from infections etc

During those two years she gradually came to terms with her own death. At 92 she was still very frightened of dying as she was full of life and attached to living despite her disabilities and age. By 94 she was ready and calmly resigned to death The two years in the home helped her get to that point and helped our family get there as well. She wasn't miserable in the home after the first few months but it helped her transition to the last phase of her life and to a peaceful death with her family around her.

We did have a good relationship with her though .

I’m sorry about your Dad, but I know dozens of people in their 70’s and 80’s who are having ongoing support and treatment for very serious illnesses through the NHS, I think saying they don’t care about anyone over 60 is rather unfair.

I do think mumsnet is totally unrepresentative of the population when it comes to medical advice. No average person demands someone go to a&e in case their tooth infection (which they’ve already see a dentist for) turns into sepsis. Mumsnet attracts the bonkers in this aspect.

that said, if you do go to a&e with a minor ailment you won’t get past triage. So it’s not really that harmful to the medical resources inside the hospital.

They do. My late mother had terminal cancer. Almost overnight she lost the ability to walk. Doctor came round and organised a non emergency ambulance to take her to hospital. She was amazing.

Perhaps it depends on where you live. I know of two people, both in their 80’s, who have a terminal diagnosis, but both are receiving ongoing care and treatment on a weekly basis. There shouldn’t be a postcode lottery though.

I honestly think they need to start stopping certain treatments on the NHS. Some things are going to need to be cut right back. I know this will be controversial, but IVF treatment is one of them. Any cosmetic surgery that is purely only for “mental health” type reasons.

The problem is everyone thinks their problem should be treated as it affects them. But there does have to be a line drawn somewhere.

The aswers are in plain sight (although will take time to deliver). No-one wants to pay more tax to get the system we need

Have just left hospital after major surgery and feeling so sad that the NHS has been through years of neglect and decline under the Tory government, B Johnson ‘clapping for the NHS’ and being treated during covid made me feel sick, every nurse, health assistant, etc, on my ward as an inpatient was an absolute angel working in truly difficult circumstances due to mismanagement, cuts, etc, every staff member I encountered was compassionate and caring and I’m humbled by their commitment and dedication, yes there were things I could moan about but to my mind anyone still working in the NHS sinking ship is an unsung hero

I'm trying to make peace with the fact I will most likely die of something entirely treatable. I'm middle aged with no one to advocate for me and I'm not in the best of health. I hope the assisted dying Bill is passed sooner rather than later so I can depart on my own terms. I have no faith in the NHS and have very few people to help in an emergency.