Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

Girls need to be sent home when they do that.

I'm a woman and I don't want to see asscheeks while I'm working, male or female.

All kids should be in the same uniform - tracksuits or trousers.

If girls are rolling up their skirts deliberately then there should be a meeting with her parents and a discussion about school policy.

All the energy directed towards discussing feminism and policing girls clothes could be redirected/include the designers of women’s clothes and the influence of clothes on young women.
Also the reasons why female celebrities are judged on their figures and clothes etc.
It’s a huge subject and it’s not ‘just clothes.’

Yes adult women can wear what they want to wear but why do we want to out in public in a cling film dress? That’s the more challenging and interesting question.

I really don’t think schools should br dictating what sort of underwear their students wear.
They should all adhere to “no underwear on show”.

F that! Why not let girls wear pants then!!

I think it's important to ask the girls why they want to dress like that, and to get the girls to ask themselves that question.

I think insisting on any particular type of underwear is not the route we want to go down

It is far easier and more appropriate for teachers to enforce skirt length or tights wearing it then examining what underwear a child is wearing.

That should be really obvious to anyone.

I remember as an 8-year-old I was a private school and we were expected to wear a particular type of horrible thick red gym knickers at all times under our uniform. Even aged 8 I remember saying to my mum that I was not going to be complying with that a bit of the uniform rule because you would have to be an incredibly weird teacher to ever check compliance

I can't quite imagine a teacher writing home to say "X" was wearing the wrong knickers today. That would be ridiculous position to put teachers in.

I saw actual butt cheeks of a school girl in front of me once, I’m a self confessed pearl clutcher and was honestly shocked (as in gawd does she not realise her skirt is very short). I was very shy as a teenager so it’s like living in a different world but I guess that’s what a diet of Love Island type programmes do for you (not that I’ve ever even watched it but I get the gist). It’s all thong swimsuits in public pools and bum cheeks on display by singers nowadays.

Indeed, I'd say skirts were peak short in 1973!

Rolling your skirt up sounds uncomfortable. Sweaty waists all round.

Two separate issues here: (1) girls dressing inappropriately, which should be enforced; (2) Head’s response, which is inappropriate.

overall girls must obey school rules and learn what is appropriate dress code for different contexts. That is nothing to do with giving ground to or taking responsibility for male “sensitivities”. However, the Head’s rationale is definitely falling within the blame-shifting category.

I must have gone to the most conservative state comp in the country back in the 70s. All skirts were knee length, no make up or nail polish allowed.

I think that's a really good point.

And yes, to the pp who said that a David Attenborough documentary about a secondary school would be eye opening!

There's no getting away from the fact that these girls are choosing to wear their skirts that way, because it's sends a sexual message. They want to be seen as an attractive and sexual being. Their hormones are sending them in a direction that they're not mature enough to handle.

A discussion on this would be really useful in a PSHE lesson.

Tbh I don't think the sock ban is that bad as it does show consequences that may hopefully stop the girls rolling their skirts up. But to link it to male discomfort is just silly and was never going to go down well with parents.

Both DDs rolled their skirts at school whether it was at a girls school or not.

The odd thing was, out of school they would live permanently in leggings or joggers and maybe wear a tiny dress for a party only.

My conclusion is that schools are creating an issue where none need exist by having stricter uniforms than when I was at school.

It's also bollocks window dressing really to appear as if academies can provide the small class sizes and personal attention that good private schools or state grammars can by apeing the kind of uniforms that were traditionally associated with independent schools. And at the same price. It's all just absolute bollocks really.

I think you might be surprised, we had A line wool skirts and some girls would tool them right up. They did indeed have massive rolls at the waist but it was part of the fashion. And we were a girls school!

I think you might be surprised, we had A line wool skirts and some girls would tool them right up. They did indeed have massive rolls at the waist but it was part of the fashion. And we were a girls school!

Agree but I don't ever remember seeing butt cheek or someone else's knickers when going up the stairs, but then when I first went to this school tights were only just coming in (1968) so we were all happy to wear them and not stockings.

So although we rolled our skirts up, they just didn't seem to be as short as they roll them up to now and thongs had not even been dreamt up

😦I think schools do not want to comment on underwear, apart from to ask that it gets covered up.

We were at a convent with midi skirts. Maybe they could have been rolled up but I can’t recall this. Probably tuck in jumpers and shirts more to give a defined waist. The nuns would’ve gone mad at us with too short rolled up skirts!

Parents are buying their daughters tube skirts, and seem happy to send them to school in them.
On non uniform days, the girls often wear tiny shorts, different tube skirts and crop tops or bandeau tops.
It's definitely a thing.

I’ve missed 12 pages of comments as I was at the dentist😭 But just to clarify: I do support the school enforcing the uniform policy. However I think it’s unfair that all female pupils are being punished because of the behaviour of a few. I did not like the language used by the Deputy head who brushed aside the behaviour of boys who harrass and make derogatory comments to girls (he actually said “boys will be boys..”) and laser focused on girls.

Regarding trousers, DD doesn’t want to wear them and I don’t want to force her into them. She always wore knee high socks (no K-pop style bows!), an appropriate length skirt with black shorts underneath. All of her friends dress in the same way and she said it’s a few girls mainly in years 9-10 who dress incorrectly.

I’m a bit disturbed at some of the internalised misogyny on the thread including claims that all girls dress in short skirts to attract men?! I think there are plenty of girls who follow their friend’s behaviour or just want to dress like that without giving men a second thought. I’m not saying they should be allowed to attend school with bum cheeks hanging out. Any girl turning up to school like that should be made to change and punished appropriately.

Oh c'mon I am 50 when I was at school the Sun still had page 3 with Sam Fox, Bill Wydman was going out with Mandy Smith and Miss World was on prime time telly, see also Daisy Duke and bay watch .I don't think love island is worse than any of that.

T'was ever thus, you won't stop girls doing it. I'm 72, and back in the 1960s we wore wide "purse belts" in order to roll over the tops of our skirts multiple times then use the belt to flatten out the roll. This was an all-girls school, so it was purely the fashion, apart from trying to embarrass our very few male teachers. One blushed ridiculously easily, so was fair game, one was made of sterner stuff and simply remarked "Nice knickers, Janis" as he passed by, and one was a thoroughly nasty piece of work who seduced a sixth former and was quietly let go by the school. One would hope that at some point he received his just desserts, but I doubt it.

@Eastie77Returns
Please note: if the DH actually said "boys will be boys" then he has made a serious error of judgement, arguably sex discrimination and needs to be reported.
Please make sure that you do that.

That’s not what the title of this thread says