Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

Two black men standing on a globally viewed stage having the N word shouted at them and you don’t think ‘what happened was racist’? Irrespective of the Tourette’s issue, ‘what happened’ is the VERY definition of racism.

I’m white but I’m dismayed and ashamed at the levels of denial on here. No wonder black mumsnetters have taken themselves off to their own thread to discuss this. It’s shameful.

He shouldn't attend an awards show when the film up for an award is based on his life and his huge amount of work educating people about the condition? Right...

So why did you say he shouldn't have gone to the ceremony? Why is that different?

"Not at all. But maybe not sit in an audience at an awards show"

How can it have been racist with no intent though? It was a tic, not an attack.

And it's me that's getting told to educate myself.

He can do whatever he wants. If he wants to attend an awards ceremony that's his business.

We all make choices.

You absolute should educate yourself. You’ve gone so far as to suggest that disabled people shouldn’t be full members of society, that they should have restrictions. Your attitude is appalling.

It's not racism, though. He didn't mean to shout it.

It was INVOLUNTARY. Dear me, I find this very difficult to keep explaining how neurological conditions are not in someone's control. I can't help my mouth opening up on its own or my tongue movements as part of my movement disorder. And in thd same way, someone whose tics are shouting swear words are involuntary, that is something they do with no control either.

I think it is so hard to understand unless you have lived with them, or been affected by a neurological condition. But a little bit of empathy isn't that hard, either.

Who knew I'm both racist and ableist now.

It's as if we don't have nuance.

We do understand, but we may not agree. It’s allowed.

Don’t know about racist but your comments are some of the most overtly ableist I’ve seen on MN and mustn’t have been reported or they would likely have been deleted.

Yes. I’m offering up my own story as a thought experiment/ case study, because I think the question of whether intent matters in a scenario where you have no say over your own actions, might be clearer for some people if the disability that robs you of your free will is epilepsy and you are literally unconscious, than Tourette’s which lots of people clearly don’t quite understand.

I’m lucky, my disability is nothing like as hard as Tourette’s, and epilepsy (while still really poorly understood and stigmatised) is at least better understood than TS. But the basic principles of intent and will, responsibility and accommodation are similar

How should I know where he's safe to go.

I suppose I can see why a black person would be upset, as perhaps they might think he shouted the offending word as a reflection of what he truly thinks... his subconscious thoughts coming to the fore, so to speak, but as a tic.

But neurological conditions don't have such nuanced ways of working. That would be too clever. Neurological conditions just make the patient feel awful and embarrassed and silly for twitching and swearing and looking quite odd.

We can't help it. Please can you try to understand this a bit.

I work with disabled people and people living with certain conditions. Have done for 2 decades. I'm not going to argue the toss whether I'm ableist or not.

Well, because you’re suggesting places he is not safe to go. You seem to be an authority on this…?

I never said he wasn't safe to go anywhere.

I think it’s likely that black mumsnetters have taken themselves off to their own thread to discuss it is because they’d quite like to have a reasoned debate instead of endless shouts of ‘racist’ directed at a man who has a disability which means he has no control over his tics. His words were not typical of the man himself or indicative of racism, but a product of his disability. It’s surprising and shocking that so many posters here are failing to recognise that, and in doing so are actually asking disabled people to apologise for being disabled. I’d say that’s what’s shameful.

No, you suggested he wasn’t fit to mingle in ‘normal’ society.

I can assure you never I said that not do I think that.

Same

Do you think Black and white people with the same disability have the same experience? They don’t. There is racism within disability spaces.

A Black person doesn’t need a disability to be living with daily stress and trauma. Racism takes a toll physically and mentally, especially at the moment. Educate yourself, because trauma is not a competition. Someone having Tourette’s or any other disability doesn't cancel out the impact of racism on Black people.

Calling out racism in disability discussions is not playing the race card or ableist. It’s recognising that different forms of discrimination can exist at the same time. No one’s pain cancels out someone else’s. Pretending race suddenly stops mattering the moment disability is mentioned is classic racist whataboutery.

Who’s arguing ? I was stating the obvious - as have other posters. I’m disabled myself and have worked for nearly thirty years with disabled people, both in a professional capacity and volunteering for disability organisations. And from where I sit, yours are some of the most uninformed and ableist comments on the thread, and if you’ve worked with the disabled for so long, you obviously haven’t learned anything from them, or about them.

John doesn’t owe anyone an apology and it hasn’t been demanded by the men on the stage

And neither do the women he calls whites even though misogyny is every bit as damaging as racism. Neither do the people he’s called cunts, pedophiles and twats.

Nothing to do with black people and everything to do with the fact disabled people don’t need to apologise to ANYONE for being disabled

But racism is being called out here where none exists. There was no intent. The words shouted out are no reflection on the views or the character of the person, doing the shouting, they were purely a product of the disability. So where is the racism ?