Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

@callmeLoretta1you did reply further up. Please see this video as an earlier poster added.
Well he’s a beautiful person and puts it very eloquently - feeling grateful to him. It really wasn’t about rascism. It’s just been escalating and it’s very sad to see. I’m only sorry you feel that way. Nothing I can say will change how you feel.

His black co-star has released a video too sticking up for him, says he absolutely deserved to be there and explains he realises it’s the condition, not John saying these things, being on the receiving end himself. So not every black person feels personally attacked and gets the condition (unlike many on here).

No, they accused you of having a victim parade. Nobody here is denying the history of black people, but you are presenting those actors who were at the receiving end of the perceived slurs as victims. They were not. The word was shouted by a disabled person with no agency over what triggers him. I would imagine that once they knew the circumstances they would be mature enough to accept that no offence was meant.

You (and the other handful of very obsessed posters in this thread) could probably log off and make better use of your time instead of having bad faith arguments with strangers online for hours on end on a Monday evening? Perhaps visit the Wikipedia for Tourette’s and do a bit of light reading while you’re at it. Just an idea!

If it was the f*ck word, sure, I can understand the argument in leaving that in, or other combinations of swear words.

But I thought - until this thread - that the n word is one word that everyone would universally agree should be edited out.

We need to be accommodating of people of colour, too. But people seem to forget that.

This made me lol. You’d seriously expect someone that collapses due to a seizure and injures a child, to apologise? Are you ignorant about how a seizure can affect the brain-causing confusion, speech loss, memory loss?
Most people would quickly realise the situation is not the persons fault and get on with their lives.

This is an upsetting thread to read. All the outright ableism, the deep ignorance of neurological conditions. I’ve been surrounded by people with such conditions all my life, many have been abused and attacked physically for behaviour that is simply not their fault. People with disabilities shouldn’t have to apologise for their disabilities.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson

Have replied but MM have deleted probably because I typed the full N word.

I think it would be very interesting indeed if the thing accidentally shouted out had been ‘Karen’ aimed at a middle aged white woman, or perhaps ‘TWAW’. A very different thread I suspect.

What are you thinking would be different?

You're joking surely.

‘The Thing’.

Being trans is not a disability, it’s a choice. Which posters are these, and what do you mean by transphobic ? I will absolutely call out ableism wherever I see it. I will also absolutely not be bullied into agreeing with aspects of biology which are unscientific and which l know not to be true.

@callmeLoretta1 I get a lot of the points you’re making about how awful hearing the n word would be for the two actors (and the black female production designer who also tweeted that this happened to her and who gave quite a nuanced response which makes for interesting reading.)

Can I ask a respectful clarifying question about your view that the impact is the same regardless of the intent, for a similar scenario.

I have epilepsy, I get no warning ahead of seizures, which happen very rarely and are mostly controlled by medication.

Lets say I have a fit at work and am unconscious and have no control over or awareness of my body’s movements, and I kick a colleague and they get hurt. Isn’t there a meaningful difference between that and a scenario where I walk up to that same colleague and kick them, knowing full well that what I was doing was going to hurt them and choosing to do it anyway?

In both scenarios the outcome is the same, someone has been kicked and feels pain and is left with a bruise, but surely there is a difference nevertheless.

If it’s happened during a seizure it’s involuntary, I had no say, no control, no options. The person I kicked involuntarily during a seizure still feels pain and shock and hopefully once they understood why, empathy, but the person I kicked purposefully while conscious would presumably feel pain and shock, but also anger and no empathy.

Society and law recognise the difference in these scenarios too, because (since the equality act) I would be illegal to fire or punish me for hurting someone involuntarily, whereas if I kicked a colleague knowingly there would definitely and rightly be consequences for me.

i haven’t seen the film but if he can’t avoid saying words when it is going to cause him to be beaten up or arrested in an airport then i really can’t wrap my head around why anyone would think this is in anyway controllable and he should therefore apologise as he is apologising for his disability - it’s like someone with a facial disfigurement apologising for people having to look at them - he is being asked to apologise for words that he is not really saying. It has nothing to do with racism, sexism, homophobia or any other DEI category and anyone choosing to be insulted needs to get a grip. If anything it is actually the opposite of racist - I would imagine a person with Tourette’s who was racist wouldn’t really be that worried about saying it and therefore wouldn’t say it. What happened to sticks and stones….? I would imagine he is hurting way more than the actors in question, who if they have half a brain will understand it is a disability.

Or, perhaps you could stop your own bad faith arguments and look up the history of the n word.

Just an idea!

Yes because the 2 measures you can take are lock a person up in a room with no window for the rest of their life or sit them in a large audience. Absolutely no in between measures at all.

I think by "thing" Clonakilla meant "word" and not that JD was a thing.

But I could be wrong.

Oh yes, I’m sure that would have been reported well. JD had to leave the BAFTAS before any black actors walked on stage in case he shouted racial slurs. Should he just avoid seeing or speaking to any black people in this case? Could this not also be seen as racist?

To be honest, after a decade of being injured and living with this movement disorder, it's been eye opening seeing the people who are empathetic and compassionate, and those who aren't.

This includes close friends and family, and medical professionals who've said some gaslighting and quite upsetting things. Others are very kind, especially those who've never met someone with my health issues. One medical student asked to write a case study on my TD... that made me chuckle.

I'm gkad this thread has made people more aware as to how hard it is living with these things, and educating others. And I hope it's made a few more people think.

The thread in the main is the result of some posters asserting that it’s perfectly acceptable to be asked to apologise for being disabled, and those who don’t agree. The nature of the perceived slur shouted out doesn’t make any difference. The lack of critical thinking is still the same.

If he had shouted out/at a TW actor that he was a man the BBC would have edited that out faster than the speed of light. Edit out the N word and/or make a proper apology for it airing it - BAFTAs and BBC, nope.

You're assuming he has the choice between one word and another.

From the ableism shown on this thread (and the other one) who knows.

Very true.

I don't think anyone with a shred of common sense views what happened as racist.

There is a difference between every day life and a large TV audience. This could have been navigated in a way that was compassionate to respectful to all.