Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

Do you believe John should apologise to everyone he offends due to his medical disability?

I haven’t watched his film, but I would imagine he has been ridiculed, discriminated against, vilified over his lifetime. Why not make him also apologise for this cruel illness he suffers from. If we shame him enough, maybe he’ll lock himself away somewhere where he can’t upset people. Being made to feel ashamed of these ticks gives his condition more power. Can’t you see that? Can’t we use a common sense approach and understand that John runs this risk every time he sets foot out of his front door. Can’t we let him live his life, with the understanding that he won’t be held accountable for these words that have no meaning or intent? Or do you feel we need to make him suffer further by holding him to account?

Us black people and our intergenerational trauma is NOT a 'teaching moment'. You want empathy for your daughter, which is understandable, but you have absolutely no empathy for us black people. Again, we are NOT a teaching moment for some other group. African Americans and other black people should not have to hear that comment. There is no excuse possible for keeping it in. The film is enough of a teaching moment as it is.

Well said!

There’s no intent.

The impact is nothing to do with disabled people and everything to do with your inability to see that JD was not attacking black people.

That’s massive whataboutery. Live broadcasting is difficult. There will have been multiple other things shouted out during the ceremony, all of which will have been checked. Ironically, the reason they were “on i it” with the Free Palestine chant was because that’s the sort of thing one would expect at a ceremony. Mercifully, this isn’t. It was listened to, repeatedly, and nothing intelligible was heard. The BBC didn’t broadcast the n-word, it broadcast a sound which we know from others in the hall was someone shouting the n-word. It never, ever, would knowingly have done so. It takes that word incredibly seriously, as indeed you would hope.

Here is his statement, you can decide for yourself:

https://x.com/StanCollymore/status/2026014761524117854

And this is the crux of the matter isnt it ? Two things can be true at the same time. The slur rightly causes hurt and offence, but because the shouting of it was as a result of disability, common sense takes over with the realisation that no offence was meant.

From reading your posts on this thread, it’s really interesting to hear you talk about a lack of empathy and others not understanding how you feel, because you have shown zero empathy towards JD or made any effort to understand how he may feel.

Despite the man having Tourette’s, you say you’re not sure if he meant his tic or not.

Despite the man attempting suicide, and having his entire life destroyed by his disability, you have said that his disability has a greater impact on others than it does on him.

It is your lack of empathy which is shameful.

Save your energy. I can see it coming now.

yes he apologised but he didn't apologise in the right wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Agree. And I have a feeling that had he apologised the once, he would still be attacked on here for not apologising after each incident. Many on here would prefer he was visited by police, arrested and marched to a cell for the crime of hate speech. They’re so utterly blinkered they can’t see from any perspective other than what fits their own agenda. It’s sad that some posters on here are displaying their prejudices towards disabled people, as if it’s a race to the bottom.

You're going too far with your unpleasantness. John Davidson has been on documentaries since he was a teen, and many, particularly in Scotland, do feel a personal connection. He's been one of the drivers as to why Tourettes is more widely understood in the UK than the US.
There's no need to sneer at people referring to him as John or Johnny. Don't be cruel.

Jordan and London are not victims. There was no attack, so there are no victims. Disabled people are not “perpetrators” (disgusting word) just because they exist.

that not intending to do harm absolves a person of all responsibility for their actions

In this case - correct.

Heres a revelation for you: sometimes there nobody to blame. The over willingness to always be the victim falls foul when there’s no one to blame.

it’s awful if people feel upset by his words - but there’s nothing that can be done that doesn’t mean locking disabled people away. He’s not to blame anymore than you are to blame. You’ll have to find a way to square that with yourself. Or perhaps lock yourself away so your ableist views can’t harm disabled people

Thank you for quoting what he said @SpaceRaccoon

I have read it. That is not an apology.

what on earth are you asking this for? do you have no comprehension?

In that case you are suggesting that his very presence causes offence. He has zero control over this - it’s what the condition is . It’s like asking a blind person to leave the room in case someone is offended because they can’t see. His condition means that he has verbal tics, which he cannot suppress. This is going to be worse if stressed or excited or anxious. Please at least try to understand. He did leave the event to avoid causing further offence but I’m absolutely gutted for him that he had to leave because of his disability. It should have been such a proud event for him and now because of lack of understanding and education it’s turned into this. The BBC should have edited it and the other actors etc should have had some advance explanation of the condition so they would know that it lacked intent. I’m not trying to minimise the black actors experience. Racist slurs are abhorrent but in this case he literally had no control over what he said . It’s involuntary -ie not under conscious control

Did you read my post? I said intent (or lack thereof) does not outweigh impact. Meaning, it doesn't matter whether it was intended OR NOT, the impact is still the same. So no, my argument does not 'fall down' because my entire...argument is that intent does...not...matter.

And I am fighting racism, or at least am trying to educate bigoted posters on this thread.

Called it.

I previously worked with a black teen with tourettes. This was one of the words he used in response to black people. He also used offensive words for Indian, Chinese, Australian, Irish people, specifically around those people. He would typically use paedo for middle aged men rather than younger men who got wanker, bastard whilst slut/whore/cocksucker was around women including me.

The condition is completely involuntary, isolating, debilitating and incredibly hard to live with. There was never any intent behind his words, he didn't not choose to say them and the fact he did say them was not a sign of anything other than his condition. He regularly called his own father, an incredibly loving dad a mixture of the two above. It literally doesn't mean anything.

Sadly, he has become more isolated and retreated into his home and family rather than dealing with the response of people who have zero understanding and empathy for the condition. I wish people had more compassion, empathy and a simple willingness to actually learn about conditions before being so judgemental.

Yep.

No but it also doesn’t make the disabled person at fault

Have a conversation about the impact of words, sure. But don’t think it gives you license to be ableist.

I’d also ask if MN is so apparently racist - why do you stick around?

And by the same token where is your empathy and compassion for a disabled person who, if some people had their way, would spend his life apologising for his disability ?

Imagine being in a room and the one thing you’re not supposed to say comes out. It could be fat cow, speccy bastard I think this is what Tourette’s is like they try not to but it can’t be helped and is normally the most inappropriate thing that could be said in that moment. It’s a horrible thing because not only can they feel immense levels of guilt, it’s uncontrollable, exhausting and people are forever judging you.