Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

I haven’t read the full thread yet but I’ve been thinking and talking about this all day and I think this perfectly sums up what I think.

Because you’re comparing apples with oranges

Would you expect someone to always apologise for being in a wheelchair? Not running over someone’s foot - just being in a wheelchair? Thats what you expect of Tourette’s sufferers

The difference - and read carefully, I feel that you will need to - is that John isn’t physically harming anyone. He’s just going about his day, not having accidents or targeting w, minding his own business, and out pops an expletive. Everyone around him hears, and many think it’s about them when actually it’s about no one. It affects him when he’s leaves the house, puts his head down and speaks to nobody.

That’s the difference.

No - why should he apologise constantly for that? Why do the faux apologies matter more than his right to a good life and liberty? This is a man who has no doubt done more extraordinary kind things in one day than you have ever done in your entire life - and YOU want to judge HIM. How dare you

Someone upthread actually suggested public gagging of disabled people with Tourette’s. I think that’s infinitely more upsetting, ignorant and discriminatory than a disabled person with this condition shouting a racist slur when they have no intent to cause offence and it’s entirely involuntary.

If you're "deeply, deeply" offended by anything I've said here, but not the lack of compassion extended to a disabled man, then fair enough. You're also cruel.

Charming. Yet more evidence of Mumsnet's well-known racism.

I think because there’s also intrusive thoughts involved. As in your brain knowing the worst thing you could say and then having no control from saying it.

Editing to add - not excusing the impact of being on the receiving end, obviously.

Disliking someone's actions, statements or opinions is not racism.

Well, the users of MN. And ableism. I imagine this thread, and the whole subject, is a wet dream for a lot people on this site.
The racism and ableism already on display is astounding. Let’s hope MNHQ delete where appropriate.

I think that racial slurs that are irrelevant to what’s being filmed should be edited out. Black people aren’t a teaching moment. @DallasMinor
The film is a teaching moment though. It’s spreading awareness and that people with TS cannot help it. It happens in RL. People absolutely must be aware of it. It shouldn’t be edited. John is a legend for his life story and allowing us insight. He went through hell. Please watch the film everyone, it is incredible and what he had to go through. The swearing comes in many forms and that’s the truth of living with TS. My DD has it and coprolalia also. Not many do, only 10% have the coprolalia. It was shocking at first re DD but it cannot be controlled. She told my own Dad to FO & it was a bit of a shock to him, he’s in his 80’s, I know everyone will be thinking this can’t be right but that is the truth of it, it’s involuntary. These tics are to be ignored but please don’t edit. The awareness is extremely important otherwise our children could also be exposed to having a beating just like what happened to John. I always say, put yourself in their shoes, let’s not edit these things, it is an important teaching tool. Teachers have told her off, I’d like more awareness in teacher training too. I know this is difficult to hear, but I absolutely needed to post.

So you’re of the opinion that a disabled person should apologise every single time for the offence his disability causes even though there is no intent to cause offence or harm and the person has absolutely no control over their actions in this respect ? Why are you demanding understanding and empathy of your own situation when you clearly have none for disabled people ?

He did apologise…

the point that you aren’t getting is he has a disability that makes him say things for which he has zero control over.

its not an act, he hasn’t put himself through hell & back for most of his life to hide the fact he is a racist.

the fact you are pushing this narrative is grimey. I’m sorry for your struggles & the things you have faced but this man owes you zero apologies for something he cannot control

I get what you’re saying but…it’s uncontrollable and sometimes riotously constant. If he apologised every time he had a tic he’d literally never get to move through his day and get things done.

They most certainly are and anyone who doesn't apologise for causing hurt, knowing that they have caused hurt-mental or physical-is a twat.

All accidents are caused unintentionally and that's why we apologise.

If a blind man walks into your three year old and hurts them, it is not his fault. However, if he knows that he has caused hurt to a three year old and doesn't apologise, then he is a twat.

If a man with Tourettes calls an overweight woman a fucking fat cunt and causes hurt, it is not his fault. if he knows that he has caused hurt and doesn't apologise, then he is twat.

If a man in a wheelchair accidentally runs over your foot, that is not his fault. If he knows that he has caused hurt and doesn't apologise, then he is a twat.

That's the size of it. If you accidentally cause pain or hurt and you know you have caused pain or hurt then you apologise.

If you don't, you are a twat and every dog in the street knows it.

Enabling racist comments and suggesting black people should just 'get over it', most certainly is. Intergenerational trauma in black communities is a real thing. But you'd need to educate yourself on it to understand it.

I'm genuinely upset and gutted for Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo, they must have been so shocked in the moment if they weren't expecting it.

I'd like to think that they are decent, intelligent and compassionate men who would understand that no hurt or offense was intented, once they understood the situation, but I do also feel sad that they would have had that moment where they possibly thought someone was abusing them intentionally.

Absolutely this.

No it doesn’t a but when there is NO intent your bigoted argument falls down

Do you really care about fighting racism? Then go fight it. There are countless examples of ACTUAL racism happening right now, this very moment. Go and speak about that. Oh but wait - you won’t be able to stick the boot into disabled people if you stay to object to ICE or displacement in Sudan, or the many attacks in the UK over the weekend so maybe it’s not actually your bag