Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

editing - as have seen you did not mean you think he did

Perhaps we disabled folk should wear badges or get tattoos that says "may act out of the ordinary, sorry for any inconvenience" or carry a big banner with us when we leave our houses.

He yelled out the N slur on three separate occasions throughout the night. One was prior to the ceremony. It was not a once off.

If one is mortified and doesn't mean to harm, then the decent thing is to apologise. Why do you believe a person with Tourettes should be exempt from that? No, he might not mean harm, but it's good to teach people to apologise when they do cause harm.

That is so very wrong. You apologise if you hurt someone. End of.

If I run you or your child over because I have a heart attack at the wheel of my car, would it be ok to tell you to fuck off wanting an apology or wanting me to feel bad because it wasn’t my fault I had a medical issue. You should get over your pain.

Because nobody should EVER apologise for their disability.

Thats the fucking difference.

HOW can you not get this?!

This would have more credibility if the BBC hadn't shown themselves in parallel scenarios to be so afraid of causing any offence that they censored output ahead of time, ie with Kneecap at Glastonbury. They evidently felt that the chance of these 'indistinct words' causing offence wasn't that important to them, or they'd have edited it out to be on the safe side. Do better.

The tics ARE his condition. You're basically asking him to apologise for being in a wheelchair, not for running over someone's foot in it.

Exactly. He shouldn't apologise. I'm not apologising for having a movement disorder that literally can't help having.

To make progress with acceptance of disabled people, we have to be more understanding.

If someone in a wheelchair inadvertently runs over someone’s foot, then yes, it’s only courtesy, but that’s a physical effect and the disabled person has voluntary control and agency over their actions. I would also caveat that in that it’s very hard to miss someone in a wheelchair and having worked with disabled people for more than twenty years, I don’t know of many situations where this would happen without there being fault on both sides. Tourette’s is different, there is no voluntary control and no agency over actions. There is no reason to apologise, just as there is no reason for anyone to take offence if they are aware that there is a disability present. You are asking someone to apologise for their disability. Which is utter bollocks.

Maybe he’s spent his entire life apologising for his disability, and has come to the realisation that sometimes apologising just isn’t enough for some people. By apologising, he’s taking the blame for something he can’t control. It must be draining to live with a disability, but also having to spend your entire life apologising for it.

I can’t actually believe Jamie Foxx has made that statement. He should be utterly ashamed of himself.

Yelling out the N word black people IS racism. It does not matter what the intent is, the impact is still the same. As a black person on X said: "the meaning of what was said matters. intent doesn’t outweigh impact. a racial slur is a serious thing even if said unintentionally. the facts of the matter are that this happened not once, but 3 times that night, all directed at black people. people are allowed to be upset"

PLEASE can any of you who haven't seen the film, watch this clip from it:

https://x.com/AntSpeaks/status/2026001818967290323

This is how difficult his life has been, and is. Absolutely not something in his control. Have some compassion ffs. Don't be like the judge in the scene.

Totally agree about the intrusive thoughts as a comparison. They are effectively the complete opposite of your intentions, true thoughts and values.

I have given many examples and you haven’t got an answer to any of them.

Person in wheelchair runs over someone’s foot and breaks their toe? Should they not apologise.

Person has a heart attack or seizure at the wheel and runs over a child? Should they not apologise?

You tell me the difference. Explain your logic. Go on. I’m listening.

The original QED doc ‘John’s not mad’ is on YouTube from when he was 16. It’s heartbreaking and clearly shows how difficult things are for him.

I disagree, I think intent needs to be present for it to be racism. I'm not saying people can't or shound't be hurt, people's feelings are their feelings, but there was no racist intent there, or any intent to wound at all. It was someone having a neurological spasm.

As I said above, the intent does not outweigh impact. If you hurt someone (even without meaning to and even with no control) you still should apologise.

As a person of colour I can assure you the impact is still the same. The impact of that word, still hurts us and haunts us. Intent makes NO difference.

You keep making this point, that not intending to do harm absolves a person of all responsibility for their actions, forcing the victim to not just deal with what they’ve been forced to handle but also take on the burden of compassion and understanding for their aggressor. This is what 8 and 9 year olds say: but it wasn’t my fault!!! I didn’t meaaaaaan it!!!

Adults are responsible for their actions, morally and under the law. That’s the only way to organize a society. Otherwise we can all go about maiming and harming and hurting and killing and raping and abusing and just say “I didn’t mean to!”.

With disabilities we all KNOW there’s no intent (most of the time). That’s just not the point. The point is apportioning responsibility for outcomes, because someone somewhere is paying a price. And responsibility always lies with the perpetrator (except in cases of duress where it additionally lies with the coercing person).

Do you understand this?

JFC

Bumping into someone is not the same as a disabled person displaying a symptom. But if you bumped into me because you are disabled and bump into everyone, I wouldn’t make it about meeeeeee, I’d get the fuck over it because I’m not an ableist loser with the brain of computer mouse

And words can’t kill children. Stop comparing words with killing people, it’s just weird and makes you look very unhinged.

Should a wheelchair user apologise to everyone they pass for making the get out the way? Because that’s the correct analogy

YOU should be ashamed of yourself expecting disabled people to apologise for their disability

As I said, your feelings are yours. The black actor who plays his lawyer feels differently - everyone's an individual.

As a woman, if a random man angrily called me a fucking dirty whore, I'd be shocked, shaken and deeply offended. If a person with tourettes did so, I would totally understand, no longer be offended - and no longer be afraid.

Well said. I am shocked at the hateful ignorance in this thread about the impact of that word on our community. I shouldn't be, it is Mumsnet and it is well known for having a racism problem, but it does feels like a lot of people are excusing racist terminology because of 'intent'. Intent or lack of ain't making it hurt less!

Good lord. Is that really your logic? You really think that’s a satisfactory answer that explains why that man cannot apologise afterwards? Running over someone’s foot is no different. It’s an involuntary action (assuming not done deliberately). So is running someone over if you pass out at the wheel. So why should “that” man be excused from apologising. He caused harm. That warrants an apology.