School wants to lie about DS to secure EHCP funding

[Liarlia]

DS is 5, in year 1. He has SEN but nothing diagnosed and I’d say he’s at the mild end of the spectrum compared to other children who I would argue need specialist provision. He toilet trained at a normal age, they’re still in nappies. One of them is pushed to school in a pushchair. They don’t engage with other children or even adults at all, DS does. They also spend most of their day still in reception which they tried to do with my DS at first but he kept refusing because he recognised he didn’t belong there. One of them just makes noises all day and rocks, it’s very sad to witness but my DS is poles apart in terms of how he presents.

But probably above all of this, DS is academically very bright. He’s in the top group for phonics and arguably ready for the comprehension group, reading age above average, passed the mock phonics screening with flying colours, brilliant at maths etc. He has speech delay so doesn’t always communicate via language, he picks and chooses as and when he wants to speak really but is a very able child.

They offer him extra support in school such as attention autism, a music intervention group and he has a TA with him throughout the day. Due to this, they’ve been pushing for an EHCP since the start of reception. I’ve resisted purely because I don’t feel it’s necessary or that he fits the criteria as such but they argue since he needs the TA (shared with another child with SEN so not 1:1), this warrants the funding. They also keep going into the finances behind the extra interventions they offer him and so I got tired of resisting and gave in. I resisted as well because I don’t want him to be lumped in a box at such a young age when I recognise how vastly different he is from the other children with SEN in terms of needs.

There’s two issues playing on my mind though now. One is that the SENCO lead told me she will lie in the application form and make out that he is worse than he is, purely to make sure they get the funding. But then this morning I was also pulled over by a mum I have never even seen let alone spoken to before who asked what my DS will be doing in year 2. She explained her DS is the child who shares a TA with mine and that she has been told he needs to move to specialist provision. This has now made me think they’re chasing the funding because they’ll lose his?

It doesn’t sit well with me and makes me feel a little queasy. Am I being silly?

This! The SENCO will probably describe his most difficult day in order to get the assessment. An educational psychologist will do the actual assessment .
OP do you think he will manage in year 5 if he needs a 1 to 1 TA in play based year one ?

The SENCO should not lie. One, it’s morally wrong. Two, if you ever want to move schools , including secondary provision, the schools will read that EHCP when consulted as to whether they can meet his needs. It does him a complete disservice to be untruthful.
As your son needs over and above the ordinary provision he should get a truthful EHCP that reflects his needs and ensures he gets the provision he deserves and is entitled to.

Is your main concern about him being "lumped in a box"? A lot of people seem to worry about this. I don't think children and young adults see any stigma in this kind of thing.

I even have a friend who is a teacher who is convinced one or her DCs has ADHD and is so worried about the stigma, that she won't get him assessed.

Your son's adult life will be way better if he gets the help now. It will I'll be worth putting up with the possibility of some stigma.

I'm a late 50s adult recently diagnosed with autism and ADHD. My life would have been 100x better if I'd had help at school. In fact my health would probably be much better too .

If he so able in every area, why do you think he has SEN?
Also please read up on SEN, he may be very able in maths , phonics etc but still have needs. He may be very different in school and it’s masking not just a work/ home behaviour difference. Masking will potentially cause problems in itself and you need to be prepared.
I feel you see SEN as an insult you constantly need to rebuff and advocate against! I’m sure your child is wonderful and clever . Support his needs.

So is the TA moving schools with the other child, leaving your child without support? Is the TA presently financed via the other boys EHCP, with your son piggy backing support? How will your son manage without a TA?

An EHCP is a plan to meet your son’s needs. The fact he needs someone at a 1:2 ratio and specialist interventions suggests the need for an EHCP is there. This is not about intelligence, there are plenty articulate and bright young people who also have autism.

I’d recommend putting your sons needs first, he's very young and at a great age to receive effective support so he can meet his potential

My son has had an ehcp since year 1. He has had full 1-1 named in the plan since he was in year 3. He is academically able.

he is now in year 11 in a mainstream school and if it wasn’t for the 1-1 he wouldn’t be. It’s still a struggle as he goes through the school but because he has the right support outlined he is coping and will get his GCSEs in most subjects (science is debatable as he hates it!)

ehcps help children access education, (well properly written ones do but that’s a whole other thread!)

If he needs a ta throughout the day he needs a echp. My dd had one and never had a 1:1

It is very noticeable to me that OP has been very happy for her son to be 'lumped in the box' with the boy who will be leaving the school at the end of the year in order for him to share the TA support.

The box they were both in is the 'needs support ' box. And it's a good job that the other boy has an EHCP or OP's child wouldn't have been able to benefit from anywhere near the same level of support.

I'm sure that as time goes on, you will be extremely pleased that you cooperated with the school to get him the EHCP, OP.

The Senco will need to evidence at least some of what she writes.

so some of what she documents will be the interventions, it will be his eyfs report, it will be paperwork that has been put together for him to have TA support.

it sounds like they have been pulling from someone else’s TAsupport to support your child which strictly speaking shouldn’t happen so your child clearly needs it.

behavioural and social issues like selective mutism etc will have also been documented - reception works a little bit like nurseries in the they take photos of work and write down how kids are engaging /what they are doing so there is a lot of documentation.

if she just lied on the form and put it in without evidence it’d just get rejected so there’s not much point.

Your child is five. He is coping in school because he has made good progress with basic skills, but as he moves through the school the emphasis on learning will change, more activities where he is expected to explain his ideas, where he will be expected to work alongside other children , to make oral presentations, to present work in different ways, in other words to be using skills that are not only based on his innate intellectual abilities but which for example require him to speak in front of the class or a group, to collaborate and to think and express ideas creatively. For many children this can be challenging, for children with SEN it can present a huge mountain which they are unable to climb without support.

The school are already offering support which sounds as though it is encouraging his creativity, developing his social skills and his ability to work with others. If they think he needs this input then why would you turn down the opportunity for this to continue You talk about the other children with SEN in the school, have you ever considered that the school is working with the parents to get them places in schools which meet their needs better than mainstream?Seems to me the school are putting a lot of effort into your child, they want to keep him, help them make it possible

I can’t help feeling you are not recognising his full level of need. School wouldn’t be putting this in place if they didn’t feel it necessary.

The TAs of long ago are very different from the TA roles today. Many TAs in the past spent an inordinate amount of time mixing paint, washing painting aprons, sticking worksheets in books etc. These days they have very specific roles much more aligned to teaching and learning and have often had training in these roles.

I assume by form you mean the request for a needs assessment? The senco doesnt just ask for an ehcp and get one.

If the la agree to assess needs, some outside professionals will come to observe you child. An educational psychologis will run tests a bit like iq ones and speech and language therapists will assess him. The ehcp will be written on what they recommend. LAs put very little on what schools say to be honest. So it might help you with your concern about being underestimated. The EP might say something like 'he has above average x,y,z and should achieve in line with peers or needs an academically able peer group..

An ehcp attracts all different levels of funding and outlines a variety of needs.

Or you'll get a half hour video call with an EP and that's it, in my experience

Ok, why needs one one one ...let's start from there.

It isnt lying as such, more painting a picture of your ds on his worst day to show the level of support needed. If they say how he is on a good/normal day, then how will they cope when/if things go downhill or he has a bad day?

I have had some terrible experiences with sencos.
I think you should be advocating for what you think is right for your child not what some batshit senco who wants to lie says.
They are only people. There are good and bad ones and downright horrible and unhinges ones, as has been my experience.
So don't let them push you if you don't think it is right but do get a second opinion

Thats a real shame. I think things just get worse and worse. The ep really should see the actual child. No wonder echps are so badly written.

The senco will just be presenting his worst day rather than his best day. Sadly it has to be this way to access the support he needs.

Either your son requires extra support or not, you sound very hung up on his intelligence. The EHCP isn't an award for how intelligent he is, it's an award representative of how much support he requires. Help the school find the funding for your child.

Your child sounds much like mine. Mine had a diagnosis of autism at 2 years old and his first EHCP at nursery.

In terms of his EHCP he has funding for full time 1:1TA, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy. He also had provisions for things like movement breaks, alternative seating arrangements, sensory circuits, adaptions to support his concentration etc.

The SALT and OT provision is privately funded by the EHCP. He was discharged by NHS years ago but still has a need for these therapies. He talks, in fact his speech and vocabulary is very advanced, but what the SALT work does is supports his social communication and interaction. He also has interventions at school for things like social skills, SALT, OT, handwriting - all delivered by a trained, skilled TA.

And as he gets older and expectations change, these needs get greater.

The EHCP process will involve things like assessments by an educational psychologist, speech and language therapist, potentially OT, all who give their recommendations - it's not just a case of what the SENCO says goes. Parents and schools often have to fight tooth and nail for decent EHCP provision so if school are saying they need it, they definitely need it.

Homestly, you sound like you have some issues with accepting your child has SEN. It’s perfectly normal to feel this way but you really need to think about what’s best for your child. EHCPs are like gold dust - extra funding, more support, higher ranking in choices for secondary schools, the option of SEN school if they need it down the line etc. I have two children with SEN - one is disabled, has an EHCP and goes to a specialist school, my other is highly intelligent, has not started school yet but I am already pushing for an EHCP for him. Why wouldn’t I want to give him the absolute best chance of succeeding? Try not to focus on other children and their abilities, that really has no bearing on your child. If the school is saying they will support an EHCP application grab it with both hands. My daughter has severe learning difficulties, mobility issues and severe epilepsy and our mainstream school still wouldn’t push for an EHCP so I had to do it myself!

He might be okay at the moment but by my experience ds got into year 4 and the wheels completely fell off, he’s now in a sen school and absolutely thriving. You don’t know what challenges your ds will face as he gets older, while I don’t condone the senco lying on the application your son will benefit from an ehcp.

Sometimes you have to lie to work the system - and it’s just because the system has a blanket policy.