School wants to lie about DS to secure EHCP funding

[Liarlia]

DS is 5, in year 1. He has SEN but nothing diagnosed and I’d say he’s at the mild end of the spectrum compared to other children who I would argue need specialist provision. He toilet trained at a normal age, they’re still in nappies. One of them is pushed to school in a pushchair. They don’t engage with other children or even adults at all, DS does. They also spend most of their day still in reception which they tried to do with my DS at first but he kept refusing because he recognised he didn’t belong there. One of them just makes noises all day and rocks, it’s very sad to witness but my DS is poles apart in terms of how he presents.

But probably above all of this, DS is academically very bright. He’s in the top group for phonics and arguably ready for the comprehension group, reading age above average, passed the mock phonics screening with flying colours, brilliant at maths etc. He has speech delay so doesn’t always communicate via language, he picks and chooses as and when he wants to speak really but is a very able child.

They offer him extra support in school such as attention autism, a music intervention group and he has a TA with him throughout the day. Due to this, they’ve been pushing for an EHCP since the start of reception. I’ve resisted purely because I don’t feel it’s necessary or that he fits the criteria as such but they argue since he needs the TA (shared with another child with SEN so not 1:1), this warrants the funding. They also keep going into the finances behind the extra interventions they offer him and so I got tired of resisting and gave in. I resisted as well because I don’t want him to be lumped in a box at such a young age when I recognise how vastly different he is from the other children with SEN in terms of needs.

There’s two issues playing on my mind though now. One is that the SENCO lead told me she will lie in the application form and make out that he is worse than he is, purely to make sure they get the funding. But then this morning I was also pulled over by a mum I have never even seen let alone spoken to before who asked what my DS will be doing in year 2. She explained her DS is the child who shares a TA with mine and that she has been told he needs to move to specialist provision. This has now made me think they’re chasing the funding because they’ll lose his?

It doesn’t sit well with me and makes me feel a little queasy. Am I being silly?

My daughter didn’t have 1:1 support, she didn’t actually need it. But because of the nature of her disability, she ticked all the boxes for needing it. The school applied for it every year, and got further hours whenever she had surgeries. I fully supported them in doing so, and never had an issue that the hours allocated for her were used for other pupils. The local authority provision for children with additional support needs is woefully inadequate and if her hours could help other children who would never receive anything from the LA, that’s a win for all involved.

The system is broken. I support anyone who can make it work for them.

I think that you are deluded about your son’s needs. If he is having to share a TA then he needs additional funding because at the moment every other child is suffering because of the resources going onto your child when it should be shared amongst them all.

Also ”One is that the SENCO lead told me she will lie in the application form and make out that he is worse than he is, purely to make sure they get the funding.” is irrelevant because she is doesn’t decide whether your son gets an EHCP or not. What she is saying she will do is exaggerate on the application to actually assess him in the first place, purely because the LA can be so difficult about whether they will do this or not.

The process will be for an educational psychologist to come into school to observe and write a report (possibly SALT and OT as well). Based upon the report, the LA will meet at a panel and look at whether to provide a plan or not.

Having an EHCP could well be the difference between your child staying at school or not. Given the age of your child and his current needs, he’s already clearly behind his peers and that gap will keep increasing.

But even if they do, your son is needing that support all day. Which takes the TA away from the rest of the class. That’s why they’ll want additional funding.

Good for you for reflecting on this, Liarlia.

The alternative is probably no meaningful support, and a distressed child. I suspect by year 3 you would be biting their hands off for support with an EHCP.

Our school didn't initially support our application; DS is also very academic, and we were falsely told that he had to be at least two years behind for any funding.

the SENCO lead told me she will lie in the application form and make out that he is worse than he is

Did she actually say she would lie? That does surprise me. Is there a chance that he is worse at school than you see elsewhere (certainly the case for my boy)?

Yep she has said she will lie, she used the word lie as well. She’s going to say he doesn’t engage with peers which isn’t true and that he doesn’t play imaginatively which he does.

He also isn’t behind his peers, he’s above most of them. As I said in OP, he’s in the highest phonics group so will be moving to comprehension next. He’s excellent at maths. But I’m not going to advocate for him about that again here, I’ve had to do that tirelessly at school for 18 months!

Did the senco actually say she would lie, or that she would complete the form 'as if it was his worst day'. This is a very well known term in the world of SEN and you really don't get anywhere without it. It is so hard to get support, if reports are written in a positive light there is no way you will get anything. Every time I receive paperwork from a school they pre-warn me that they will have written it very negatively, purely to make sure they get the support they need. Since that's how they are always written, that's what the council/authority/DWP expect. They never outright lie though and anything they claim will need to be strongly backed up with evidence (behaviour logs, professional reports etc) otherwise the EHCP won't be granted anyway.

maybe reserve judgement until you see exactly what they write and discuss with them if you disagree with anything? There are so many parents fighting tooth & nail for EHCPs and the associated support, don't dismiss it if the school are offering to help.

my son is extremely intelligent, was well ahead of his peers academically in Y1 and had no issues with potty training, walking, any of the other things you mention. Communicates extremely well, doesn't make friends with children easily but interacts very well with adults. He was still expelled by mainstream school when he was 6. Things can escalate rapidly at that age, especially if the school don't have enough resources to support him - no way they can continue to give him TA support or any of the other interventions if they don't get any funding for him. The EHCP process takes years anyway, so it's far better to start it now rather than wishing you had when it's too late.

Gosh, you’re lucky that the primary school is so pro-active. I’d snap their hands off if I was in your shoes!

My DS was only diagnosed with Autism and Dyspraxia in secondary school after I paid for a series of private appointments with a paediatric neurologist who was very thorough in his testing and gave very clear advice to the school in how best to support DS. It’s made an enormous difference to DS and school is finally bearable for him.

It was clear to everyone that he had autistic traits but because he was way above everyone else in terms of academic ability, the Primary school wouldn’t put him forward for testing. Sadly, this meant he struggled with hand writing, Art, PE, and anything requiring good balance or manual dexterity.

Cross-posted. I wouldn't let her actually lie - it's you that would have to keep up the pretence through this school life. If they're giving him a TA and other interventions there should be enough evidence without needing to stretch the truth. Insist on reviewing any documents before they're sent and make sure they're truthful (although like I said, keep the phrase 'on his worst day' in the back of your mind)

I agree don’t allow her to lie. You can bet anything if the school get found out they’ll place blame with you. As I said before allegations of FII for financial gain is becoming sadly a common accusation. Parent blame is an easy get out for schools. A SENCO who openly admits to lying is a red flag .

If he needs 121 some of the time then I think an EHCP is entirely reasonable.

It might be clumsy wording from the senco. The assessments need to be brutally written to have a chance at being accepted.

If he needs regular ta suport, then he needs an EHCP. It doesn't mean he will go to a special school, in fact even kids who desperately need a place and have both school and parents begging for one are often left in mainstream. Parental choice is also a big consideration, so if you say you want him in mainstream, he'll stay mainstream.

As a mum of older SEN kids, with a similar profile, don't underestimate how complicated his education might get. In many ways, education for the kids with greater care needs / lower academic abilities can be simpler, as the focus can be more on well-being and life skills.

Trying to get the right suport for an academicly able sen child to meet their potential can be really tricky and the MH impact of being 'different' but socially aware enough to be very aware of the differences is even harder to manage. I'd strongly recommend getting the EHCP I place now, so if he does ever need more support then the school can give, you'll be in a better position to access it quickly.

If they don’t lie (I suspect “exaggerate” would be a better word) then they won’t get the funding, and he’ll just have to sit in the class all day with all the other kids and hope for the best. Is that what you want?

I’m stunned that you seem resentful of all the extra time and help he’s had.

I’m not resentful of the extra time, I don’t think I’ve ever said that once. I’m resentful that I had to explain time and time again that despite his speech delay, he was in fact intelligent and was not the same level as the other children with much higher needs. In reception, he was lumped in a box with them because he was different and I did resent that, yes.

Things have changed since year 1 thankfully, they assessed him as I mentioned and found that oh shit I wasn’t a fantasist and he can read and do phonics.

And that is the main issue I have with the EHCP, especially if they do lie and say he’s worse than he is. I don’t want him to be shoved in a box where he’s underestimated.

You may be driving the teachers mad. If your son needs these things then you have to let the school follow their usual process for obtaining them, not defund
the school

My son is intelligent, perhaps not top sets but making expected progress, also in Year 1 but has Autism and does need a TA with him throughout the day. We got his EHCP at preschool. I'm surprised your son has been receiving even 1:2 support without an EHCP until now. He definitely needs one. At DS's school not every class has a class TA because the government doesn't provide enough funding for this any more so if you don't apply for the EHCP your son may well lose his support at some point. It sounds a bit like he's benefiting from another child's funding and being topped up by the school.

Obviously they shouldn't lie but it is somewhat understandable when councils have a tendency to decline EHCPs to children who need them (something like 95% of appeals are upheld at tribunal). My advice to you would be to focus on your areas of biggest concern with the Educational Psychologist and make sure everything is in there that you feel is needed.

I think it's probably really important you find some time to learn about EHCPs and how a good one should be all about your child and helping them meet their potential.
For example it should identified strengths and weaknesses and then put in support for the weaknesses so child can reach their potential.

My child's Educational psychologist report identified they are in the 99th percentile in some areas but just scraping average in others. Their suggestions for the EHCP reflect this so request work to be broken into smaller manageable steps with visual prompt so he can continue to work at his capability level.
It alo notes needs for movement breaks and that right now school is a highly overstimulating so they need access to a quiet space.

If your child is already accessing support then school is right to go for the EHCP to try and maintain this support.

Also as your child moves through school they may find they need more or less support transition from key stage one to key stage two can be a big step for.kids who struggle with certain aspects again having the EHCP in theory will mean school can plan ahead a little to try and ensure support is in place.

An EHCP shouldn't be about lumping all.kids together it should be about individual needs being met with the right support.

I will caveat all.of.that with they can extremely hard to get and then at times hard time sure needs at met appropriately as the local authorities will always be looking to save money.

I won’t worry about him “being shoved in a box” or labelled because you aren’t going to let that happen.
let them apply for all the supports, use any supports that are helpful but continue to advocate for the right supports.

People can be doublet exception, have SEN and be gifted.
it is a challenge to support all the needs involved.
I have 3 children in this category, They are older than your DS so believe me you can have SEN, need educational support, get amazing results, go to a world class university.

The bigger issue is could you do it without the appropriate supports and why would you not take the support.

Thank you all for the advice. The EHCP is going ahead, I just wondered about the ethics of lying about him on the report. No, it isn’t a case of writing about him on his worst day either. She’s literally said she will lie about aspects of his behaviour to improve the chances. That’s what I feel a little bit queasy about. And coupled up with the other boy likely moving to specialist provision, it all just married up in my head.

I have no doubt he will do well in life. The SENCO lead also said she knows this which was nice to hear. She’s new, the previous one didn’t have the same faith in him until she watched me playing with him at a stay and play without my knowledge and was shocked he could spell and such.

Think it’s a case of him presenting differently at school but as I say, we all do at work vs home too. He’s getting more confident which is good and showing them how bright he is.

Classes may have a TA but they can't sit that TA exclusively with your son. The class TA is there for the benefit of all the children not to be sat with one child the majority of the time - that's the point of EHCP's, they are a way of recognising where a child has support needs that go beyond the general level of support in the class.

Op, what is it they're lying about? I would be surprised if a school would lie on what is a difficult to access resource for parents.

Have you asked what behaviours your child is showing in school? I mean this kindly, but I think you're struggling to separate IQ from additional needs. It isn't an either/or. My dc is one of the most intelligent in the class with SEN (above NT kids). Therefore, it is imperative my child gets the right support to reach their full potential going forward.
School gets a hell of alot harder, and the expectations on children now are huge. Believe me, you'll be delighted this plan is in place by the time your child is at the age where pre-existing traits have intensified. Reception is a walk in the park compared to upper primary; I'm speaking from experience.

A friend of mine (not sure of her exact job title) worked in a school and used to have to fill in forms for kids who needed EHCPs.

She may not technically have lied, but she definitely used to stretch the truth as far as it would go, because the provision for SEN is so shit that the kids wouldn't get anything like the help they needed otherwise.

Just because your son is intelligent does NOT mean he doesn't need help.

Please get all the help you can for your son, regardless of your own feelings about how much more able he may be than the other SEN kids. The other kids are not relevant here.

You seem to be misunderstanding that good at phonics and maths means an EHCP isn’t required. Your child is taking up a TA with one other child. That TA should be able to cover 30 children! All the phonics and maths ability going doesn’t make up for the cost a school needs to employ and provide the additional support that your child clearly does need.

My ds had an EHCP.

He got some 9’s at GCSE, competes for the country sometimes in his sport and is a software developer.

He also has SEND and that support costs money.

If you don’t want the EHCP the are you saying he’ll cope without that TA of the other pupil loves to specialist provision?

More important are you happy for him not to reach his full potential because you don’t want them to get the funding?

He won’t get an EHCP unless the school can evidence and assessments by psychologists etc evidence without the support he won’t access education.

Did it occur to you that maybe he has had the opportunity to do so well in school because he has had the TA to support him? Did you think that maybe 28 other children aren’t having their needs met because your child is using the TA who should be supporting them?

Honestly don’t fight against support for your son.

there’re parents out there locking horns with school and the council for an EHCP. They’re like flipping gold dust and benefit the child massively.

i don’t believe the school are lying on reports for a child who doesn’t need significant support, yes they may word things in an exaggerated way, but it wouldn’t be lies.