Andy Burnham…

[CurlewKate]

What specifically is it that makes people think he would be a good leader of the Labour Party or Prime Minister? Actual practical reasons. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be-and I like the fact that he’s on the Left and he has an appealing way with him. But apart from that, what would he bring to the job? Not being Kier Starmer doesn’t count!

There was no good option for Labour once Burnham had said he wanted to stand. If he got elected to Parliament it would have made the jostling for who’s next to lead even worse. Don’t forget it’s not just Starmer, Mahmood and Streeting and any other current MP who has ambitions wouldn’t want him there either. And he won’t have a recent parliamentary career to be judged on, although many will remember when he was Health Secretary. Unless Starmer was willing to upset another senior minister by sacking them to give Burnham their job and then tie him to the success/ failure of the government he would always be the untainted option.
Also, they would probably face a backlash against him leaving the Manchester mayoralty and lose that to either Greens or Reform, and Labour would be blamed for that.
As it is, they are blamed for not allowing him to stand. The only good option would have been for Burnham to keep quiet. When he went to the Labour conference he left early without speaking as he didn’t get the warm welcome he was expecting.

@RobinStrike yes to this “The only good option would have been for Burnham to keep quiet.”

Poor political judgement in many ways by AB. Has benefited no one, including AB himself. Also he knew the rules before he said he wanted to go for the seat so no surprise it could have been refused.

I am a northerner and I want the best person for the job wherever they come from

This is why Im suspicious about their motives. I think they want someone to trigger a leadership election and install a more Left candidate (not Burnham unless they think hes Left, which he isnt). Someone on the other thread when I said this pointed out that they dont have much support because so many of the Harder Left have gone to YP and Green, which is a good point, but then them agitating for Burnham makes no sense. Why are they suddenly so desperate for this Blairite/Brownite person to become Labour leader? It smacks of troublemaking.

But also because they have nobody else, from within the PLP. The distant northern king/prince across the water is all they have.

He has charisma and leadership qualities. People seem to like and respect him.

The buses I take actually turn up now and are way cheaper (£2 instead of £4.50). We’re quite near the city centre though so maybe that’s a factor.

Just by doing this he has demonstrated very limited political nouse. He must have known the trouble he would cause, for no good reason. He could have bided his time, said he was behind the PM (even if he wasn't) until after the May elections, but instead he has made a fuss for no good reason, has pissed everyone off and is back where he started.

Just commenting as a member of the Labour Party (god help me) and from the left. Basically everyone I know, whatever their politics within the party, recognises that Keir cannot continue to the next election and in all likelihood the May election results will result in him needing to stand down. The big question is then who can replace him to prevent there being a future Reform government which we would obviously see as disasterous to ordinary people.

There is nobody inspiring from the front bench and the left are realistic that under the current rules Labour MPs will not nominate someone who matches our politics....so that leaves us with Burnham who is the closest we can get. Not because he is wildly left-wing but more that his politics have largely stood still (obviously adapting to circumstances along the way) while the party around him has swung right-wards.

He has name recognition, previous government experience, has since been Mayor of a large and complex area with a reputation of broadly doing a good job, he has spoken out on various issues like child poverty and looks to a reach to voters that some other politicians in the party lack.

Thank you! I agree.

It’s much easier to do a good job, or be perceived to be doing a good job as a city Mayor than it is as PM. The city Mayors don’t have as much control as we think. See also, Boris Johnson.

Starmer is simply Tory-lite and U turns on policies left right and centre. For him politics is all about survival - a pragmatic biased approach rather than based on an ideology (similar to Cameron and Johnson). Sure he will talk the good talk about making the country fairer, better, but in reality what has he actually done ? You only have to see what he has done with the disabled and elderly to realise he is a thinly disguised Tory.

Denying Burnham is more of the same, doing everything to save your own skin and not about what me might be best for the country.

Burnham I think is more ideologically based, thinking about what might be best for the country in the long term and not saving his own skin. Is the politics he wants right for the country ? I don't know. But I'm willing to give it a try.

I so heartily disagree.

Talk to actual human beings walking around, and Starmer means

• impoverishing and killing pensioners through removing the energy payment in his first winter (this is the one people mention the most)
• locking up Britons for protesting
• lawyer who let grooming gangs away with raping little white girls

Sometimes:

• little war gamer Napoleon sucking up to America
• he wants to put us back in the EU even though we voted out

Or some variation. Those are the things that seem to stick in people's minds, especially 1 and 2.

Why would anyone "get behind" someone who is associated with all that?

I think hes been ineffective and a poor communicator but all the things you've mentioned are nonsense.

edited - sorry I meant to quote @PickleC

If so many in the party feel so strongly on this, what confidence do you have for a “better” choice by members next time? If Burnham was so brilliant, why was he so low in getting votes when he went for leader previously?

your party put Starmer there so why don’t you all just get behind him at least for this term, whether or not you think he’s doing ok? All this infighting is just benefiting reform and MPs should solely focus on what they were elected to do. I’d somehow make it law that a leader can’t be changed mid government for no other reason than it’s not going as hoped. And force a by election for defectors.

I do like and rate Burnham but not so much now as he showed poor judgement in going for the Denton seat.

Completely agree. He lost badly, twice the last 2 times he went for leader. He seems to be just a random name they have come up with because he's popular in Manchester. All they are doing is basically saying its a foregone conclusion that they will lose to Reform at the next election, they are publicly divided and have been from the start. It just make the Labour Party look permanently unfit to govern because they have so many factions that openly despise each other.

It isn't the question. It is how he's viewed in the safe Labour seat I recently moved away from. Starmer is amazingly, staggeringly unpopular.

@MangaKanga but why vote someone else in to be Labour Party leader/PM unless you are sure they are going to be better?! Look what happened with the Tories and the revolving door of disaster. Unless there’s someone you have confidence in rather than you just can’t stand Starmer things could get worse rather than better. I think he’s been a poor PM but I’m not sure there’s anyone else available better. It’s better the devil you know for me

He gets normal people with normal issues

Maybe. I agree that Andy has not done much to show he'd be any better. It would take a miracle for Labour to get a second term anyway so probably a moot point.

Look though at what happened in New Zealand when the unpopular Andrew Little withdrew from the Labour leadership quite close to the election and Jacinda Ardern won wholly unexpectedly. Labour were in Opposition but had been polling extremely poorly. Ardern turned it around. That charisma thing again. There has to be dark horse candidate somewhere in the party who could actually come through.

@MangaKangaI totally agree with that and I don’t believe Starmer can go into the next election. But I think they need to pick someone the whole country will want and who actually has some political beliefs this time. Starmer’s ’no such thing as Starmerism’ has shown he doesn’t have a clear vision of what he wants to do and we desperately need a PM who does have a vision and actually ensures it happens. His quote saying he pulls the levers and nothing happens is supposed to show how hard it is to move the civil service but I agree with Wes Streeting as a PM he has the power to sort that if he wanted.

I agree we do need someone with vision, but what vision does Andy Burnham have, apart from the vision of himself as Labour Leader? He's sorted out the buses in Manchester. Well that's great, but what are his views on the economy etc? He was a Blairite in government and now he's just been latched on by the Left because they cant think of anyone else? So they will still be unhappy when he gets in. Is he just there as a holding leader until Labour lose the next election, then they think they can get someone else in?

Streeting might be all right but at the same time doesn't seem fresh in the way Ardern did. What has he ever done that makes him seem like he couldn't just as easily have been a Tory MP/minister? Genuine question.

He did so very nearly lose his seat to the young Muslim lady as well. If he were the party's choice I think they'd have to move him a far safer seat-- if any remain for Labour come next election.

Jacinda Ardern had a fairly low profile I believe before suddenly becoming the face of her party a month of so before the election. The British Labour Party need someone not too known - a bolt from the blue.

@MangaKangaI don’t like Andy Burnham because I remember him first time round, and I think he absolutely knew his application would be rejected for Denton so that was pure troublemaking.
I agree we need someone else but I have no idea who. When I look at the current cabinet I can’t see anyone I would be confident having talks with the EU and Trump. I like Streeting because I’ve read his autobiography and I feel he is Labour at heart. The biggest problem is someone the left will choose won’t get voted in by the electorate. The whole of Europe is moving right, and if Labour don’t have a centre or right leaning leader they will be sunk (probably will be anyway). But the government has managed to get a fair bit of legislation through and they re more than just the PM. He isn’t President, the rest of the cabinet work too. I’d rather just ride it out as it is for a bit until someone appears.

We need that bolt from the blue you mention!