NHS/Term-time contract

[JokerOfTwo]

Hello,

Has anyone successfully been given a term time only contract from the NHS?

Background: currently on my 2nd Maternity leave, will return in October (officially ends 3rd week of August but using leave to extend) I work in a specialist role as a band 6 - the team is made up of 6’s/7’s/8’s. I currently work full time (37.5) but would like to drop to 31.5 (this isn’t a problem) it’s a Monday - Friday job.

My eldest DC will start school in September, and my leave will just not cover the school holidays, my husband works for the police (he’s not a police officer) but due to strict operational requirements, chronic staffing shortages, him having “on call” shifts and high demand during peak times leave requests can easily/often be declined.

My mum works full time (lives 3+ hours an away) and In-laws have made it politely clear they don’t not want to be child care for several weeks a year.

I’ve looked at/asked about holiday camps for the top 3 schools I’ve applied & they all just seem a bit flimsy, they start at 9am finish at 3, only run Mon - Thurs, not available every break & the waiting lists are long, this just seems like a disaster waiting to happen to rely on these when I just don’t have the back up if it falls through.

On top of this even though I’ll have to take this time off work my youngest will be in private nursery (contracted to 51 weeks a year) so I’ll be paying for him to attend even when he doesn’t need to (because I’ll be off work) whereas if I put him the school nursery he’ll have the same time off as eldest & it’ll save me £400 a month, this is my average bill currently with a child in nursery even with “30 hours free”

Please note I’ve not spoken to my ward manager/matron about this, so really looking for advice on approaching the situation.

And as tempting as it is to say things like “work it out between you and other mums” or “I made it work back in the day” I’m really just wanting advice on if people have been granted it & what were the circumstances.

Not everybody has the same support systems or local/community support in place as others.

I'm not sure, you can only ask and see.

If you can't do this, you need a holidays only childminder. They probably have term time only children so might be willing to provide this for you.

Go for it, I think it's unlikely to be approved but you might as well try. I toyed with idea in 2016 , but was put of wish I pushed harder tbh. As to how to make it work:

You each drop a day at work so there are only three to cover.
You take your v. generous A/L allowance all in the school holidays ( NHS with greater than 4yrs service is 34 days + bank holidays)
You take unpaid parental leave ( goole it)
You work oppsite shifts ( nights/ dus, weekdays/ weekends)
You use holiday clubs ( local private schools often run them for longer hours)
Yes you call in favours

I tried.
Similar situation to you and the cost of the childcare was completely out of our budget.

It was a straight no from my line manager because it “didn’t suit the needs of the service “.

I asked if I could compress my hours into 3 days, but that was a no.

I had to leave. I was a senior b7 sister, had been in the job for near on 17 years.

Took a job at a lower band, decent set hours, condensed and that worked with my husbands hours of work. I absolutely HATED every minute of that job, it was fucking awful.
It meant me working every Saturday and Sunday 12 hours back to back (as husband had every weekend off) for around 3 years.

Short term pain but worked well. I then had to work my way back up the bands in a job that I actually wanted to do to get to where I was pre baby.

You just have to do whatever works for you and yes, sacrifice may come into it.

Gosh it’s hard enough finding a childminder for term time, our third choice schools’ breakfast club only opens at 08:15 - dreading being allocated this one.

I think I live in one of those areas where childminders just aren’t as prevalent, we’re not I a super rural area but definitely a school drought areas - so not many options.

Thank you though.

Do you have the option to buy annual leave?

I've worked in the nhs for over 20 years and I've never heard of anyone on a term time only contract.
Your perfectly entitled to request it, but I think every service in the nhs would struggle with making it work.

No idea on the NHS side of things, but have a think about how would your role be covered? I dont do term time as such, but am paid for 48 weeks of the year so have an extra 4 weeks off but I have a deputy who covers during these periods. Maybe think of the practical elements to put forwards if they push back to demonstrate how it could work. Do you know of any one in a similar role who does term time?

Also worth looking at parental leave and how this could work as an alternative to ease things a little during school holidays.

Hi , thank you…. I’m definitely going to ask & take it beyond my line manager if it’s a no.

I’m already planning to drop a day, again DH works for the police in planning/strategy & no ability to drop, and he does “on calls”which are placed over any day you don’t work (currently Sat/Sun) but if he was magically allowed to drop a day, and for example didn’t work a Monday - he could be placed on call this day, ergo not reliable.

Re: the unpaid parental leave & using my leave during the school holidays, I have looked into this but it’s seems like a 6 of one half a dozen of the other type situation
If they grant me both (time off both paid and unpaid over the holidays) isn’t that just what I’m asking for anyway?

And I know you’re not trying to be agnostic, even though I explained it… but calling in favours and using clubs isn’t always possible or realistic for everyone, and really depends on where you live, I’m semi rural and there really isn’t many schools, so services and provisions just aren’t there, childminders are like gold dust.

No harm in asking, I don't think your chances are good but I knew someone in the public sector who got this because their dept was overspent that year and it was viewed as a saving. If your role would need to be covered it would incur cost for them though.
Childcare in your area sounds particularly poor. I think you'll have to keep your youngest in private nursery as that is one less worry. In my experience reception was very difficult childcare-wise but once we were past that there were private holiday clubs available- theatre weeks, sports weeks etc.
Unfortunately you are a couple who both have child-unfriendly jobs and that is going to make life difficult. Thinking about couples I know usually one or the other has a job that is at least semi-flexible. So worst case scenario one of you needs to move to a different role.

DH works for the police in planning/strategy & no ability to drop, and he does “on calls”which are placed over any day you don’t work (currently Sat/Sun) but if he was magically allowed to drop a day, and for example didn’t work a Monday - he could be placed on call this day, ergo not reliable.

With respect your DH needs to step up. The police are a good and flexible employer with many " sideways" moves possible. Or he is so high up and well paid that you can afford a ft nanny. Failing that think about a University student / aupair for the holidays, should be ok if LO is in nursery.

Hi, thanks…. similar situation I’m a senior 6 & have worked for the NHS for over 15 years, I’d happily leave but I think I’d face the same issue whatever team I moved to.

Can I ask did you work every Sat/Sun (apart from annual leave) for the whole of your children’s primary/secondary education? - I don’t think me missing every weekend of their childhood (whilst they attend schools during the day) is worth the sacrifice.

I have toyed with the idea of going back to ward work & doing 2 long days, maybe I’d have better chance at set shifts doing that.

So far doesn’t seem anyone’s been granted it.

Yes I've known people work term time only but they worked in NHS schools services. We had nurses and AHPs, I don't know what you do. Sorry that's probably not very helpful!

I know one consultant in a shortage non patient facing specialty who did it. Annualised hours is I believe the majic phrase you are looking for. BTW they cannot decline parental leave requests, so that may be an ace up your sleeve.

Do you not have a nursery/holiday club on the hospital site?

He’s definitely not “So high up” if he was I’d be doing just that employing a Nanny in the holidays - I wish.

I’mnot sure what police force you’ve worked with but they are notorious for not being flexible…. The contracts are iron tight when it comes to hours/leave and staff can be directed to work mandatory, or compulsory, overtime to meet operational requirements.

Sideways move are something he’s looked into (and is always on the radar) but everything so far has come with more out of hours provison/unsocial hours.

And truthfully he likes his job, I’m not willing to leave nursing, I could easily get an agency job or work as a TA, but work has to provide some satisfaction/opportunity to develop. Hence why I’m asking for term time contract within my current role.

I'm TTO but I'm an AHP and not ward based.

We used to have people on term time contracts about 10 years ago (NE England NHS trust).but they have all gone now. It's always worth asking.

This is what I’m kind of hoping, if I explain (politely) I’ll be requesting all school holidays as annual leave using my full allocation and then requesting unpaid parental leave for the rest surely it’s as I’ve already said its a a “6 of one half a dozen of the other type situation” and they should consider my request for a term time contract so they can plan accordingly.

If you don’t mind asking, was there anything in your circumstances that help you get this contract?

Lots of NHS organisations are desperately trying to cut costs so I’ve noticed a lot more flexible working requests getting approved (for lower hours/ term time) as they ultimately mean lower costs. So ultimately I’d give it a go OP.

I think it would be unlikely to be granted, but you can only try.

Have you looked at unpaid parental leave to boost the NHS and police forces already generous leave allowances https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave for both of you?

It is irrelavent if your DH job is busy and important, he is a parent too and needs to step up and parent throughout the year, and use what Annual Leave/ TOIL and flexible working policies his employer has too.

A large part of the gender pay gap stems from men not doing their part in this way.

I’ve only known one colleague in all my years as a nurse get term time approved but that’s because there were other people that could cover the role. However it then meant a lot of pressure on everyone else to then cover.

You can ask but they have every right to decline if they feel it doesn’t meet the needs of the service.

I wouldn’t rely on being able to have all the school holidays off as a/l as a bargaining point - you can request leave and they can decline. Parental leave can also be deferred by your employer https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave .

Yes definitely, but and I keep saying it but that feels like a “6 of one half a dozen of the other type situation” if I explain (politely) I’ll be requesting all school holidays as annual leave using my full allocation and then requesting unpaid parental leave for the rest surely they should consider my request for a term time contract so they can plan accordingly

Maybe you could consider bank work? Not ideal but you get the shifts you want - I don't think relying on being able to take every single school holiday off is realistic. Have you thought about what you'll do for covering your child's sickness.