Therapy for 4 year old?

[inthecornersofmymind]

Hello and good morning!

I am currently looking for therapy options for our 4-year-old son.

Is there anyone in this group with child(ren) of the same age who are attending therapy sessions?

If so, would you mind sharing some recommendations with me?

My choices include Play Therapy or CBT.

This has to be a joke.

Have you ever, in any context, met a 4 year old? They’re exactly like how you’re describing. I have one, and everything you write is common for him too.

Genuinely, I think it’s you who needs some help to understand things a bit better. It’s all 100% normal.

Parenting support will be useful for you, partly to manage your expectations but also learning techniques to manage a willful child. Best of luck because it’s not easy being a parent, however nothing you have said seems anything other than normal to me, my youngest was just as you describe and is very successful in her career in a highly technical role

As others said, sounds normal for his age - I think your expectations are unrealistic. Getting in the car is non negotiable. I wouldn’t even offer choices for breakfast - if you do, only 2 options. If he doesn’t want it, he’ll be hungry.

I’m normally a huge advocate for therapy but in this instance I don’t think it’s what your son needs (unless there’s more information you’re not comfortable sharing. If that’s the case, I would definitely try play therapy).

As others have said, his behaviour doesn’t sound beyond normal for a 4 yo. I think it’s important to remember that your son looks like a proper little boy now (rather than a toddler or a baby) and yet he still has a very young brain. Impulse control and following instructions remain an ‘issue’ for many years of childhood and as parents it is our responsibility to figure out what tools we need to keep our kids safe as they grow. Unfortunately, as soon as you find one that works, they develop a bit more and you have to find another way to keep them safe but that’s the fun of parenting!

What happens after your son refuses dinner/throws it away? How do you respond/what do you do next? What did you say if he changes his mind about a choice? Same with the car situation - if he refuses to get in the seat, what’s your next move?

I think we are all parenting our specific kids (with all their complexities!) for the first time and the fact you’re asking for help suggests you’re a great mum. Please don’t feel like you’re doing it all wrong. There are many tools and techniques out there to try and I think it’s also helpful sometimes just to hear that many of us are fighting the same battles! Developmentally normal behaviour in toddlers can feel infuriating and sometimes we just need to lower our expectations and accept that they need time to develop certain skills. A lot of parenting is working out how to calm your own nervous system whilst these battles are happening and ensuring that you have consistent approaches to the tough moments which are rolled out in a predictable and calm way.

Out of interest, how do you think therapy would help? He sounds like any 4 year old I’ve ever met, left to their own devices.

Children don’t generally come out of the wrapper being compliant and cooperative, they don’t generally make choices in their best interests, it’s all about socialising and managing behaviour by parents. You setting clear expectations, modelling the behaviour you want, praising him when he does well and, yes, dealing with it when he’s pissed off with you - and being pissed if with him at times.

Its good that you’re asking for help, get some decent parenting books, do some reading and recognise you need to effectively train the behaviour you want and correct the behaviour you don’t want.

Err your child is normal. You are too soft and he is walking all over you.
You don't need therapy, you need parenting skills class.
I have two boys, both with SEN and we managed with no therapy, but strict rules, consequences, harsh words, firm voice, repeat this every day for ever.
You can't use therapy to make your chikd a golden angel who won't push boundaries.
Its natural for them. Its up to you to put up the guardrails.
Editing to add, my kids are happy and loved but they know ehen we mean business. Even still they try it on, every single day.
Honestly, gentle parenting is a load of bollox with high energy kids with their own mind.

Hello

Honestly, I don't know how it will work. I'm open to trying anything; I support gentle parenting and prefer not to tell off or punish the boys.

I regularly praise our boys, and I’m very affectionate; I never let on when I'm irritated with him, always covering it up with a smile.

The primary reason I struggle to handle him at times is that our firstborn child was not like this; I never faced this issue with him, so naturally, I am unsure how to address it, and I lack support from my husband.

I've bought a lot of parenting books lately, but I still haven't gotten around to reading them.

You need parenting help.

I often give him another food choice.

When he refuses to get into the car, our 10-year-old automatically lifts him and places him inside; I believe this stems from his frustration, and I understand that it's not his duty. If says no to sitting in the car seat, I gently explain that we can't go anywhere until he gets in, and I sometimes offer a little incentive to encourage him.

Or you can take the cue from your 10 year old and just put him in OP.

Car seats are none negotiable, as are things like teeth brushing. You give him no choice.

If they scream then they scream. Screaming doesn't hurt them.

Hello again, OP. Some sort of support for your 10 year old, play or family therapy perhaps might help. The four year old is an issue for you and your husband to seek support for your parenting together. I’m sure in central London you can find an excellent parenting expert that can support you. Maybe look at non-violent resolution, reflective parenting or similar practitioners.

First, read the parenting books.

Second, just because you got a biddable one the first time, doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with your second.

Third, get parenting help.

You made the mistake of thinking parenting is the same for every child. It isn’t. You adapt and grow with them.

With the best will in the world, how will your child know where the boundaries are if you don’t enforce them? How will he know his behaviour is out of line if you don’t tell him? How will he know he’s upset you if he never sees you irritated by him? You’re giving him a view of life that is simply unrealistic under the guise of gentle parenting.

He needs to know some things are simply not a negotiation - things like getting in the car to get to places on time, being safe in his car seat aren’t things he can just decide not to do. Gentle parenting isn’t about giving your child control and complete choice - he’s too young to be able to process that, and it feels very unsafe for a child not to know where the limits are.

The wider world will be irritated with your child - he needs to know that relationships ebb and flow, that rupture and repair is part of a healthy relationship and how to do that, and that skill starts in the safety of their family. If you never discipline him, how does he know he’s done something wrong, and how to fix that? What happens when he inevitably uses aggression and violence to resist doing things he doesn’t want to do? This isn’t a therapy issue, it’s a parenting one.

I read and used techniques from a book called 123 Magic that helped when mine were that age actually. It worked on my first. Not on my second. All kids are different.

So I would say that you need to pick one item (simple toast or a basic sandwich, for example) that you serve if he throws away dinner or refuses what you’ve cooked. Unless he has any additional issues relating to food (low weight, long term fussiness), it’s okay to say that what you cook for dinner is what you all eat and if that’s not what he wants tonight, the only alternative is toast. I think there’s a big drive to give kids lots of choice at the moment but I think this can be overwhelming sometimes and I think it can also be used in the wrong areas. You’re almost giving your son too much power for his age and this can actually make things harder for everyone. He needs you to lead the way so you need to take some power back. I would avoid offering choice around meals and keep it for smaller things like snacks.

You already know that the car situation isn’t the right dynamic. It isn’t up to your older son to parent your younger son and you need to be the one who picks him up and puts him in his seat. My son loves the car so I try to give him 5 mins of climbing around the car before it’s time to climb in. You can give him a 1min warning and then a 10s countdown and then you just put him in. He needs to know that you mean what you say. You don’t need to shout or see this as punishment or threaten punishments. Just calmly wrestle him into the seat and, if you want to, say I’m sorry. I know it’s not nice to be put in your seat. You can try again next time to get in by yourself”. You just need to follow through every time and he’ll get the hang of it.

So, have a think about what times you need to be leading and figure out what you can put in place so he gets a clear warning and then you follow through. The more consistently you do this,
the faster he’ll realise that he’s not in control. And although that sounds bad, it’s actually much better for him to know that you’ve got this. It makes kids feel safer when they see their parents setting clear boundaries and calmly enforcing them.

Re parenting books, try getting some audiobooks. I struggle to find anytime to sit with a book but I can cook/drive with a podcast or audio book and get the same info!

Siblings can be so different. My boys sound like yours OP, the first responded really well to gentleness and easily did what he was asked (after his very early years in which he was clingy and needed a lot of comforting).

But the second has always pushed back at requests, not to be naughty but his drive to test limits was stronger. I found out he needed a firmer approach - still kind, but more of a "this is what's happening".

Edit: Also I used fun and humour a lot to diffuse the tension, as well as the classic distraction technique. If I got ds2 giggling it was easier to plonk him in his carseat and strap him in

You seem to be wanting to outsource parenting OP. Nobody can set up boundaries for your child if you don’t. Therapists who work with children will always primarily, as a priority, work with the parents - because the vast majority of behavioral issues stem from the family environment, the child simply responds to what you are doing / not doing. You are the one who might benefit from therapy, not your child (this isn’t meant to be negative btw, I have used therapy multiple times in my life).

I agree it's behaviour management not necessarily therapy but if play therapy helps then i don't see harm. Some books on behaviour management might help. My favourite is123 magic, it was recommended by a professional for oppositional behaviour but is suitable for any child. It's a no nonsense approach.

(Edited to add I see @Shedeboodinia has already recommended this book).

Remember OP all children are not the same and some are a hell of a lot easier to rear than others. Don't feel bad about yourself, he might be a difficult one and you need help that others don't, it's not a reflection on you. Some children naturally follow and conform and don't like to upset Mum, they may thrive on a gentle approach. Others need very firm handling and a tough parenting approach. The child won't adapt so you have to. That's not easy for anyone.

"I allow him to choose and make his own decisions"

Big mistake. Huge.

If says no to sitting in the car seat, I gently explain that we can't go anywhere until he gets in, and I sometimes offer a little incentive to encourage him.

so this should read:

If he says no to sitting in the car, I empathise that he doesn't want to, but I also firmly say he has to and I pick him up and put him in the seat.

OP, this is not gentle parenting. This is non parenting. Never telling them off or giving them consequences does a child no favours, they feel insecure without knowing exactly where the line is and all you will raise is an entitled, spoilt child who rules the roost and thinks that he can hold you all hostage for 'a little incentive.'

He is a child. He does not dictate whether you go anywhere. Your 10 year old is parenting him better than you are at the moment!

Did your very long last thread not give you any tips for parenting?

He’s 4, he needs parenting. Allowing a 4 year old to make his own decisions could mean a range of things.
“what do you want for breakfast?” V “you can choose cereal or toast for breakfast, which one”. In the first, they’re in control, in the second, you, the adult parent, is in control whilst the very young child still thinks they’ve made a choice.
He doesn’t need a therapist, you need sensible parenting support.

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