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Ukraine Invasion: Part 60

966 replies

MagicFox · 14/01/2026 12:28

We have got to thread 60. So many thanks as always to regular contributors and to those providing updates. For the 60th time, Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

**
Agreed thread guidance:

A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

D. Please keep on topic

OP posts:
Thread gallery
407
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:05

Just realised today’s round ups are on thread 59 @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:06

Kyiv Independent Telegram Highlights
⚡️US-Ukraine peace talks (kyivindependent.com/us-ukraine-talks-to-continue-in-davos-kyivs-top-negotiator-says/) to continue in Davos, Kyiv's top negotiator says.
⚡️ Putin invited to join Trump's new Gaza Peace Board, Kremlin claims. (kyivindependent.com/putin-allegedly-invited-to-join-trumps-new-gaza-peace-board/)
Moscow is currently studying the proposal, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters, according to state news agency TASS.
⚡️ Trump vows to eliminate (kyivindependent.com/trump-vows-to-get-russian-threat-away-from-greenland/) 'Russian threat' to Greenland as he ramps up pressure on Europe.
"NATO has been telling Denmark, for 20 years, that 'you have to get the Russian threat away from Greenland,'" Trump said, accusing Denmark of being unable "to do anything about it."
⚡️EU prepares to retaliate (kyivindependent.com/eu-prepares-to-retaliate-against-trumps-greenland-threats/) against Trump's Greenland threats.
The European Union is preparing possible retaliation against the United States, including up to €93 billion ($101 billion) in tariffs or restrictions on U.S. companies operating in the bloc, amid escalating tensions with U.S. President Donald Trump over Greenland, the Financial Times reported Jan. 18.
Zelensky picks a fight with Kyiv Mayor Klitschko as mismanagement, Russian attacks push city to the brink (kyivindependent.com/zelensky-picks-up-a-fight-with-kyiv-mayor-klitschko-as-mismanagement-russian-attacks-push-city-to-the-brink/)
Now, following Russia’s Jan. 9 attack, Kyiv has been pushed into a humanitarian crisis, leaving residents without heating, hot water, and electricity through the coldest winter in years.
Now, following Russia’s Jan. 9 attack, Kyiv has been pushed into a humanitarian crisis, leaving residents without heating, hot water, and electricity through the coldest winter in years. President Volodymyr Zelensky called the situation in Kyiv “especially difficult,” slamming the local authorities.
Klitschko hit back, dismissing the accusations as “groundless” and politicized. He said the government had not coordinated any joint response to the crisis.
Ragnar Bjartur Gudmundsson 🇺🇦
‪@ragnarbjartur.bsky.social‬
⚡️ RUSSIA'S WAR AGAINST UKRAINE — JAN 19, 2026
■ Increased engagements and casualties but stay below average; no newly confirmed area change
■ Record 7-day equipment losses, driven by high drone and land-based equipment losses in recent days
■ Overnight 🇷🇺 attacks incl. 145 drones; 87% were intercepted, with 17 locations hit or affected by debris
■ 15 🇺🇦 strikes reported; the 30-day 🇷🇺/🇺🇦 strike ratio now below 18

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:06

UNITED24 Media Telegram Highlights
We held detailed discussions in the United States on the economic development and prosperity plan, as well as security guarantees for Ukraine, with a focus on practical mechanisms for their implementation, said Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Rustem Umerov.
“For two days, Kyrylo Budanov, Davyd Arakhamia, and I worked in the United States. On the American side, the consultations included Stephen Witkoff, Jared Kushner, US Army Secretary Daniel Driscoll, and White House official Josh Gruenbaum.
We briefed our American partners on recent Russian attacks on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure.
We agreed to continue work at the team level during the next round of consultations in Davos.”
❗️Russia could launch up to 1,000 drones per day in 2026, Commander-in-Chief Oleksandr Syrskyi said.
He stressed that Ukraine must move to offensive actions, noting that “there will be no victory in defense.”
According to Syrskyi, the enemy has failed to implement any of its strategic plans to seize Ukraine, calling this one of the key achievements of the Defense Forces.
🇮🇹 A shipment of heating equipment from Italy will arrive in Ukraine in the coming days to support regions most affected by Russian attacks, said Kyrylo Budanov, head of the President’s Office.
“As part of the first stage, 78 industrial boilers with a total capacity of 116.5 MW are being delivered to Ukraine. This equipment is critically needed amid constant strikes on our infrastructure,” he said.
❗️Russian forces damaged a power plant in Odesa overnight.
The destruction is significant, and repairs will take considerable time to restore the equipment to working condition. Specialists are on site clearing debris, DTEK reported.
As a result of the shelling, 30,800 households are currently without electricity.
🤔 Putin is losing credibility on the world stage, and his lies are no longer taken seriously — WP.
The Washington Post writes that the Russian president’s international influence is weakening amid crises among his allies and a loss of trust from the United States.
Analysts note that Putin is avoiding harsh rhetoric so as not to appear weak in relations with Trump. The seizure of a tanker flying the Russian flag and Washington’s public refutation of Kremlin statements show that the US no longer views Moscow as a strong player.
According to WP, the erosion of the Kremlin’s position coincides with growing domestic discontent in Russia over the war against Ukraine and the collapse of the myth of Russia’s “invincibility.”

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:07

Kyiv Post Telegram Highlights
Trump is preparing to take his “Greenland obsession” global this week at the World Economic Forum, bringing a 99-year lease proposal and multibillion-dollar tariff threats (www.kyivpost.com/post/68295) to the table as he pitches the plan to EU allies in Davos, Kyiv Post reports, citing two sources familiar with the plans.
Ukraine will carry out new offensive operations, (www.kyivpost.com/post/68318) as victory cannot be achieved through defence alone. Meanwhile, Russia plans to mobilise more than 400,000 troops in 2026, Commander-in-Chief Syrsky said.
Serbia given break on oil sanctions (www.kyivpost.com/post/68293) while Russians look to sell off refinery stake.
Hungary’s foreign minister said he expects Hungarian oil company MOL and Gazprom Neft to reach an agreement for the purchase of remainder of Russian shares in Serbia’s NIS.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:11

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights
Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski has urged India not to trust Russia.
Polskie Radio reports that during his speech at a literary festival in Jaipur, India, Sikorski emphasized that Moscow does not honor its agreements, and Putin "calls the Ukrainian people brothers, yet kills them," despite having signed border treaties.
U.S. President Donald Trump has invited Putin to a "Peace Council" regarding the Gaza Strip, stated Putin's press secretary, Dmitry Peskov.
Earlier, the FT, citing sources, reported that there is a proposal in the U.S. to expand the mandate of the Trump-led "Peace Council" to other hotspots, including Ukraine and Venezuela. One source mentioned that the Trump administration views the "Peace Council" as a sort of replacement for the UN to resolve global conflicts.
The creation of a separate "Peace Council" for the Russian-Ukrainian war is part of a 20-point peace agreement currently being developed by Ukraine, the U.S., and European partners.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 19/01/2026 12:12

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar I’ve copied your posts here but it only brings text. Will post casualty/losses table below:

Ukraine Invasion: Part 60
notimagain · 19/01/2026 12:22

Natsku · 19/01/2026 12:00

They use commercial satellites from a Finnish company at least (I build parts for these satellites in my new job) they're cool because they provide images even at night and through cloud cover.

Ah, sounds like maybe ICEYE and their SAR "birds'..

Musy be fascinating work but I promise to not ask for anymore detail ..🤐

dibly · 19/01/2026 14:09

This is really worrying, https://defencematters.eu/france-claims-the-lead-in-ukraine-intelligence/; as is Putin being asked to join the peace council, the whole Greenland situation and fractures in the NATO alliance. I’m normally quite chilled, but really fear where this is all heading.

DuncinToffee · 19/01/2026 14:17

Belarus has also been invited

Mb76 · 19/01/2026 18:59

I’m very worried about the whole Greenland situation.

I’m also very worried about Kyiv residents freezing to death. There is no love lost between Klichko and Zelenskyy but they need to stop bickering and show unity at this difficult time

MissConductUS · 19/01/2026 20:50

notimagain · 19/01/2026 12:22

Ah, sounds like maybe ICEYE and their SAR "birds'..

Musy be fascinating work but I promise to not ask for anymore detail ..🤐

SAR was originally developed for ocean reconnaissance because the radar used is quite good at spotting naval targets over large areas from high orbit. And I do recall reading that the technology had progressed to where it produced useful images, but I was unaware that there was a constellation of micro satellites in low earth orbit using the technology.

Every day a school day on MN.

🎓

notimagain · 19/01/2026 21:01

@MissConductUS

Yep, it's amazing really.

Once upon a time national agencies were struggling with the mechanics of recovering emulsion films from orbit, which, when processed often just showed cloud cover.

Now sir or madam can, at a price, order up an image of their back yard in (almost) any wavelength of their choice.

PerkingFaintly · 19/01/2026 21:16

notimagain · 19/01/2026 21:01

@MissConductUS

Yep, it's amazing really.

Once upon a time national agencies were struggling with the mechanics of recovering emulsion films from orbit, which, when processed often just showed cloud cover.

Now sir or madam can, at a price, order up an image of their back yard in (almost) any wavelength of their choice.

That really puts it in perspective... Shock

Emulsion film is one of those things the likes of me has never even thought about... but now you mention it, is obvious. Mindboggling...

notimagain · 19/01/2026 21:32

One from the archives...note there's no mention of what the capsule might have contained..

m.youtube.com/watch?v=vC6PJYFRDCA

PerkingFaintly · 19/01/2026 21:43

Blimey!

DdraigGoch · 20/01/2026 00:08

Checking in

Unic0rnSparkle0405 · 20/01/2026 01:14

following, thank you for the info 🙏

blueshoes · 20/01/2026 02:45

https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-19-2026/

Key Takeaways

  1. The Kremlin reportedly established a list of the top five State Duma candidates to represent the Kremlin’s United Russia ruling party in the September 2026 State Duma elections.
  2. Putin’s reported platforming of hardline pro-war public figures highlights a Kremlin effort to present pro-war figures as the role models who embody Russia’s political priorities going into 2026.
  3. The list, if genuine, suggests that Putin is attempting to further cement a pro-war ideological vanguard in Russian political life by platforming public figures who push Putin’s war and larger pro-war political agenda.
  4. Russia reportedly has begun using unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) equipped with thermobaric artillery launchers to adapt artillery to current drone-dominated battlefield conditions.
  5. Russian forces have reportedly split the grouping operating in the Kostyantynivka-Druzhkivka tactical area into two tactical groups: the Dzerzhinsk (the Russian name for Toretsk) and Bakhmut tactical groups.
  6. Ukrainian forces recently advanced in the Kostyantynivka-Druzhkivka tactical area. Russian forces recently advanced in Sumy and Kharkiv oblasts and near Slovyansk.
Natsku · 20/01/2026 03:19

notimagain · 19/01/2026 21:01

@MissConductUS

Yep, it's amazing really.

Once upon a time national agencies were struggling with the mechanics of recovering emulsion films from orbit, which, when processed often just showed cloud cover.

Now sir or madam can, at a price, order up an image of their back yard in (almost) any wavelength of their choice.

It must make a big difference. Finland and Sweden have both ordered Iceye satellites for military use, the newest ones give a ground resolution up to 16cm!

PerkingFaintly · 20/01/2026 10:15

Rossiyskaya Gazeta playing Trump like a fiddle:

'Europe is at a total loss': Russia gloats over Greenland tensions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c17zpvkddpzo
"If Trump annexes Greenland by July 4 2026, when America celebrates the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, he will go down in history as a figure who asserted the greatness of the United States," writes Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

U.S. President Donald Trump shakes hand with Russian President Vladimir Putin, as they meet to negotiate for an end to the war in Ukraine, at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage, Alaska, U.S - the two men are shaking hands with Putin using his...

'Europe is at a total loss': Russia gloats over Greenland tensions

The BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg analyses why pro-Russian government papers are full of praise for Donald Trump's desire to buy Greenland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c17zpvkddpzo

DrBlackbird · 20/01/2026 19:56

Thread 60, four years on and hundreds of thousands of utterly unnecessary deaths and Putin must be laughing himself to sleep every night to see the fractures in the West.

An American historian (can’t remember his name) suggests that it’s going to take a significant - negative - event to bring the world back together again.

blueshoes · 21/01/2026 02:07

https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-january-20-2026/

Key Takeaways

  1. Russian strikes against Ukrainian energy infrastructure cut power to electrical substations powering the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant on January 20, consistent with a recent warning from Ukrainian military intelligence.
  2. Russia downplayed the impact of Russian strikes on the Chornobyl NPP, even as Russia continues to pose increasing threats to all of Ukraine’s NPPs.
  3. Ulyanov is deliberately ignoring the context of this power outage amid the systemic threat and damages that Russia has caused to Ukrainian NPPs throughout the course of the war.
  4. Russian missile and drone strikes overnight on January 19 to 20 significantly damaged additional energy infrastructure throughout Ukraine, particularly Kyiv City.
  5. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reiterated the Kremlin’s commitment to its original war demands against the background of expected peace talks at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland on January 20, and falsely accused Ukraine of beginning the war by attacking Russia.
  6. Drone operators of the Russian Rubikon Center for Advanced Unmanned Technologies are increasingly conducting mid-range strikes against Ukraine’s high-value, Western-provided air defenses and rocket launchers.
  7. Ukrainian forces reportedly created a tactical kill zone that denies Russian forces from using vehicles within 20 to 25 kilometers of the front line or using infantry within one kilometer of the front line near Kupyansk — a capability that Ukraine should deepen and expand across the entire theater.
  8. Russian forces are using training missiles to strike ground targets in Ukraine, possibly by equipping them with live warheads.
  9. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appointed Colonel Pavlo Yelizarov as the new deputy commander of Ukraine’s Air Force on January 20.
  10. Russian forces recently advanced in northern Kharkiv Oblast and near Pokrovsk.
MagicFox · 21/01/2026 07:27

Great speech by Mark Carney in Davos last night:

**

"It’s a pleasure – and a duty – to be with you at this turning point for Canada and for the world

Today, I’ll talk about the rupture in the world order, the end of a nice story, and the beginning of a brutal reality where geopolitics among the great powers is not subject to any constraints.

But I also submit to you that other countries, particularly middle powers like Canada, are not powerless. They have the capacity to build a new order that embodies our values, like respect for human rights, sustainable development, solidarity, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of states.

The power of the less powerful begins with honesty.

Every day we are reminded that we live in an era of great power rivalry. That the rules-based order is fading. That the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must.

This aphorism of Thucydides is presented as inevitable – the natural logic of international relations reasserting itself. And faced with this logic, there is a strong tendency for countries to go along to get along. To accommodate. To avoid trouble. To hope that compliance will buy safety.

It won’t.

So, what are our options?

In 1978, the Czech dissident Václav Havel wrote an essay called The Power of the Powerless. In it, he asked a simple question: how did the communist system sustain itself?

His answer began with a greengrocer. Every morning, this shopkeeper places a sign in his window: “Workers of the world, unite!” He does not believe it. No one believes it. But he places the sign anyway – to avoid trouble, to signal compliance, to get along. And because every shopkeeper on every street does the same, the system persists.

Not through violence alone, but through the participation of ordinary people in rituals they privately know to be false.

Havel called this “living within a lie.” The system’s power comes not from its truth but from everyone’s willingness to perform as if it were true. And its fragility comes from the same source: when even one person stops performing — when the greengrocer removes his sign — the illusion begins to crack.

It is time for companies and countries to take their signs down.

For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order. We joined its institutions, praised its principles, and benefited from its predictability. We could pursue values-based foreign policies under its protection.

We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false. That the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient. That trade rules were enforced asymmetrically. And that international law applied with varying rigour depending on the identity of the accused or the victim.

This fiction was useful, and American hegemony, in particular, helped provide public goods: open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security, and support for frameworks for resolving disputes.

So, we placed the sign in the window. We participated in the rituals. And largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality.

This bargain no longer works.

Let me be direct: we are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.

Over the past two decades, a series of crises in finance, health, energy, and geopolitics laid bare the risks of extreme global integration.

More recently, great powers began using economic integration as weapons. Tariffs as leverage. Financial infrastructure as coercion. Supply chains as vulnerabilities to be exploited.

You cannot “live within the lie” of mutual benefit through integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination.

The multilateral institutions on which middle powers relied— the WTO, the UN, the COP – the architecture of collective problem solving – are greatly diminished.

As a result, many countries are drawing the same conclusions. They must develop greater strategic autonomy: in energy, food, critical minerals, in finance, and supply chains.

This impulse is understandable. A country that cannot feed itself, fuel itself, or defend itself has few options. When the rules no longer protect you, you must protect yourself.

But let us be clear-eyed about where this leads. A world of fortresses will be poorer, more fragile, and less sustainable.

And there is another truth: if great powers abandon even the pretence of rules and values for the unhindered pursuit of their power and interests, the gains from “transactionalism” become harder to replicate. Hegemons cannot continually monetize their relationships.

Allies will diversify to hedge against uncertainty. Buy insurance. Increase options. This rebuilds sovereignty – sovereignty that was once grounded in rules, but will be increasingly anchored in the ability to withstand pressure.

As I said, such classic risk management comes at a price, but that cost of strategic autonomy, of sovereignty, can also be shared. Collective investments in resilience are cheaper than everyone building their own fortress. Shared standards reduce fragmentation. Complementarities are positive sum.

The question for middle powers, like Canada, is not whether to adapt to this new reality. We must. The question is whether we adapt by simply building higher walls – or whether we can do something more ambitious.

Canada was amongst the first to hear the wake-up call, leading us to fundamentally shift our strategic posture.

Canadians know that our old, comfortable assumption that our geography and alliance memberships automatically conferred prosperity and security is no longer valid.

Our new approach rests on what Alexander Stubb has termed “values-based realism” – or, to put it another way, we aim to be principled and pragmatic.

Principled in our commitment to fundamental values: sovereignty and territorial integrity, the prohibition of the use of force except when consistent with the UN Charter, respect for human rights.

Pragmatic in recognising that progress is often incremental, that interests diverge, that not every partner shares our values. We are engaging broadly, strategically, with open eyes. We actively take on the world as it is, not wait for a world we wish to be.

Canada is calibrating our relationships so their depth reflects our values. We are prioritising broad engagement to maximise our influence, given the fluidity of the world order, the risks that this poses, and the stakes for what comes next.

We are no longer relying on just the strength of our values, but also on the value of our strength.

We are building that strength at home.

Since my government took office, we have cut taxes on incomes, capital gains and business investment, we have removed all federal barriers to interprovincial trade, and we are fast-tracking a trillion dollars of investment in energy, AI, critical minerals, new trade corridors, and beyond.

We are doubling our defence spending by 2030 and are doing so in ways that builds our domestic industries.

We are rapidly diversifying abroad. We have agreed a comprehensive strategic partnership with the European Union, including joining SAFE, Europe’s defence procurement arrangements.

We have signed twelve other trade and security deals on four continents in the last six months.

In the past few days, we have concluded new strategic partnerships with China and Qatar.

We are negotiating free trade pacts with India, ASEAN, Thailand, Philippines, Mercosur.

To help solve global problems, we are pursuing variable geometry— different coalitions for different issues, based on values and interests.

On Ukraine, we are a core member of the Coalition of the Willing and one of the largest per-capita contributors to its defence and security.

On Arctic sovereignty, we stand firmly with Greenland and Denmark and fully support their unique right to determine Greenland’s future. Our commitment to Article 5 is unwavering.

We are working with our NATO allies (including the Nordic Baltic 8) to further secure the alliance’s northern and western flanks, including through Canada’s unprecedented investments in over-the-horizon radar, submarines, aircraft, and boots on the ground. Canada strongly opposes tariffs over Greenland and calls for focused talks to achieve shared objectives of security and prosperity for the Arctic.

On plurilateral trade, we are championing efforts to build a bridge between the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the European Union, creating a new trading block of 1.5 billion people.

On critical minerals, we are forming buyer’s clubs anchored in the G7 so that the world can diversify away from concentrated supply.

On AI, we are cooperating with like-minded democracies to ensure we will not ultimately be forced to choose between hegemons and hyperscalers.

This is not naive multilateralism. Nor is it relying on diminished institutions. It is building the coalitions that work, issue by issue, with partners who share enough common ground to act together. In some cases, this will be the vast majority of nations.

And it is creating a dense web of connections across trade, investment, culture on which we can draw for future challenges and opportunities.

Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu.

Great powers can afford to go it alone. They have the market size, the military capacity, the leverage to dictate terms. Middle powers do not. But when we only negotiate bilaterally with a hegemon, we negotiate from weakness. We accept what is offered. We compete with each other to be the most accommodating.

This is not sovereignty. It is the performance of sovereignty while accepting subordination.

In a world of great power rivalry, the countries in between have a choice: to compete with each other for favour or to combine to create a third path with impact.

We should not allow the rise of hard power to blind us to the fact that the power of legitimacy, integrity, and rules will remain strong — if we choose to wield it together.

Which brings me back to Havel.

What would it mean for middle powers to “live in truth”?

It means naming reality. Stop invoking the “rules-based international order” as though it still functions as advertised. Call the system what it is: a period of intensifying great power rivalry, where the most powerful pursue their interests using economic integration as a weapon of coercion.

It means acting consistently. Apply the same standards to allies and rivals. When middle powers criticise economic intimidation from one direction but stay silent when it comes from another, we are keeping the sign in the window.

It means building what we claim to believe in. Rather than waiting for the old order to be restored, create institutions and agreements that function as described.

And it means reducing the leverage that enables coercion. Building a strong domestic economy should always be every government’s priority. Diversification internationally is not just economic prudence; it is the material foundation for honest foreign policy. Countries earn the right to principled stands by reducing their vulnerability to retaliation.

Canada has what the world wants. We are an energy superpower. We hold vast reserves of critical minerals. We have the most educated population in the world. Our pension funds are amongst the world’s largest and most sophisticated investors. We have capital, talent, and a government with the immense fiscal capacity to act decisively.

And we have the values to which many others aspire.

Canada is a pluralistic society that works. Our public square is loud, diverse, and free. Canadians remain committed to sustainability.

We are a stable, reliable partner—in a world that is anything but—a partner that builds and values relationships for the long term.

Canada has something else: a recognition of what is happening and a determination to act accordingly.

We understand that this rupture calls for more than adaptation. It calls for honesty about the world as it is.

We are taking the sign out of the window.

The old order is not coming back. We should not mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy.

But from the fracture, we can build something better, stronger, and more just.

This is the task of the middle powers, who have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and the most to gain from a world of genuine cooperation.

The powerful have their power. But we have something too – the capacity to stop pretending, to name reality, to build our strength at home, and to act together.

That is Canada’s path. We choose it openly and confidently.

And it is a path wide open to any country willing to take it with us."

OP posts:
LlttledrummergirI · 21/01/2026 09:12

That speech should be everywhere.
It won't change the MAGA hard core around the world- he has been on the hate list for years, so they have been conditioned to condemn whatever he says, but regular people need to hear it.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 21/01/2026 10:14

I wish I lived in Canada!
I hope Keir Starmer is listening.