Time - "the back of xx o clock"

[Hungrycaterpillarsmummy]

This is just my thoughts spilling out but my husband just said to me "I've told your dad I'll be round at the back of 11" and i'm like so is that 5 past 11 or 5 to 12? And he laughed because he has definitely explained it to me before and I just can't wrap my head around it.
The back of something, to me, sounds like it would be the end. So I imagine it to be closer to 12.
I know I am wrong. But the saying is bullshit.
There. I said it.

Same to me, also Scottish.

Me too, it's not a word used that often, and usually only in formal contexts, but no one has ever batted an eyelid when I've used it or heard it used here in the home counties.

Oh, minor derail, but as we're talking about clocks, my grandmother would always say "its five and twenty past" for twenty five past the hour. This was in the sixties and she would have been in her late sixties, in the west country. Never heard anyone else say the time in this way. Anyone else come across this?

Just checked the family and the southerners didn’t know what back of 11 meant

five and twenty - I only remember that because it lines up with the German

My dad used to use 5 and 20 and similar. I assumed it was a hang up from pre-decimalisation and him having grown up with shillings and sixpence type terminology.

But could be half past?

God Almighty, they are partners!

I love outwith and "sederunt".

Nothing to do with £sd. It’s an old fashioned way of counting, similar to the way numbers are said in German.

Same principal though. Old fashioned.

In German 'the day after tomorrow' is 'übermorgen'. Perhaps your 11yo is secretly German?

And my grandparents (in their sixties in the 1980s) said 'five-and-twenty past five'. Londoners as far back as anyone knows.

Not Scottish-but widely read. Between 11 and 11.15 ish.

I love “outwith”. Also, I was a student in Scotland in the dim and distant days when we got grants-and we were given a time to “uplift your cheque”

There's also some disagreement on what "half eleven" means. My English BiL says it means half past eleven but my mother used to say it means half past ten ie half way to eleven.

Nearside and offside makes perfect sense. It stems from horses and the days of carriages.

“near” side is the left. It’s the side you get on the horse, that the horse should be approached from. The nears side of the horse/carriage is the left- that nearest the curb.

we’ve just lost the origin of the word somewhat.

With a user name like that, might you care to verify that the phrase shit-faced is linked to those who may not have heard the warning shout of 'garde a l'eau'??😉

I drive a Vauxhall Mokka. I don't mount it from the left. The side near me, where I get in, is the right.

It only "makes perfect sense" if you have a context, as I said in my original post. No horse = no context.

The back of means shortly after.

I’ve never known anyone mean anything but half past eleven when they say half eleven

Exactly this!

This is another German thing isn't it? They don't say half past, rather half to the next hour.

To me, half eleven is half past eleven.
To a German 'halb zwölf' (halfway to 12) would be the same time, but if you said 'halb elf', it would be half past 10.
Always make sure you are very clear on what you mean when arranging to meet up with a German (or your mum!)

Likewise. Except it isn't a Vauxhall Mokka I am mounting!

Never heard it before but I’d assume five or ten to 11

The poster who said to look at a clock face confuses me as ‘back of’ would signify before 11 as it is behind the 11!

Although it would seem quite a few Scottish people can’t actually agree what period of time it does relate to!