Time - "the back of xx o clock"

[Hungrycaterpillarsmummy]

This is just my thoughts spilling out but my husband just said to me "I've told your dad I'll be round at the back of 11" and i'm like so is that 5 past 11 or 5 to 12? And he laughed because he has definitely explained it to me before and I just can't wrap my head around it.
The back of something, to me, sounds like it would be the end. So I imagine it to be closer to 12.
I know I am wrong. But the saying is bullshit.
There. I said it.

I think it's a bit like me and "nearside" Vs "offside". It doesn't matter how many times DH explains it, I can't remember. It's the lack of context. Near what? Me? The hedge? The central reservation?

I'm the same with "back of". I think I know that it means 'after' but then in my head, back also means behind and therefore I want it to be before the hour. I don't think it's as logical as it purports to be.

Yes! You understand :)

I really struggle with stuff like this…..the same when someone says “can we push this meeting back 30mins?” - I panic - do they mean earlier or later (I know now it means later) but I still have that momentary “aaargh” moment!

Same for me. I've no idea why but it took me years before I was able to remember what my (Scottish) DH meant when he used it. I'm sure he got heartily sick of me saying "sorry, is that just before eleven or just after?" 😂

(also just got him to translate Lang may yer lum reek abody for me. Same to you!)

My aunt used to say 'the back of xx' all the time, and I never remembered whether it meant just after the hour or just before the next one. My dad, her brother, and my mum, who grew up a few streets away, never used that expression. I'll remember the majority view on this thread until approximately the back of one, then no doubt return to my previous confusion.

If you are Scottish though and if you live in Scotland (you don't say if you do) it's something you will hear regularly.

i can (almost) get not knowing exactly what time it means, but certainly you must grasp it enough to know roughly what's meant.

calling it bullshit though was over egging your post, while leaving an important part out....

still if that's what floats your boat.

its just funny - I get why your op was laughing at you.

Never heard this phrasing. When I say ‘quarter past three’, for example, to an American acquaintance, he has no idea what I mean.

I only found out a couple of weeks ago that this is very much only a Scottish thing! I’m utterly baffled, so ingrained this is in my vocabulary, I’ve no idea why people outwith Scotland don’t use it!

I’ve always understood it to mean anywhere between ten past and twenty to, but that was going by my dad’s usage of the term, and he was always late, so I appreciate that other people mean something different by “the back of”! It was a very vague phrase when I was growing up!

If you listen to Radio Scotland in the mornings they'll often say "We're now heading to the news on the hour, Phil is then here with the sport , before we discuss Labour's controversial policy at the back of the hour."

So, they'll chat about the issue around 11:10, reaching to 11:20/5 ish. They'll use 'back of the hour' as it's variable - could be anytime between 11:05-11:30 depending on how detailed the discussion is/ how many callers they have. It's a very handy expression as it's malleable/ adjustable.

Yes I am Scottish and live in Scotland and always have.
It was a blip that I didn't put I was Scottish in the post but I didn't even think I'd need to, I thought it was such a common phrase that everyone uses and I just don't because I can't get on with it :D
The post was a piss take at myself :)

I’m Scottish and always use the saying ‘ the back of’ for timings.

just because you haven’t heard of it doesn’t mean it’s bullshit. Stop being such an arse

Fuck sake. I HAVE. It's common. Read the thread

I’d never heard this phrase until my Scottish stepmum came into my life and I stopped knowing what time anything was happening 😂. I’m with you OP that it sounds like the end of the 12 o’clock hour, rather than behind the exact time of 12 o’clock. Hard to describe. Had to sharpen up my ears or I’d get head shaking and mentions of “sassenach” 😂

I’d not have a clue. I’ve never heard this phrase, but it’s quite sweet.

It certainly is that! I'm laughing with you.

lots of very regional phrases that others wouldn't get, but this one does seem universally used all over Scotland. I know I do use it regularly. Maybe not daily but close enough

😂😂😂

I haven’t heard it, but would have thought it meant ‘coming up to 11’ so maybe between 10.30 and 11. But it looks like I am wrong!

calling it bullshit is out of order though

My 11 year old keeps asking me what's happening overmorrow, which apparently means the day after tomorrow. It's not a word I've ever heard before.

Never heard of that and would have no idea what was meant.

We say the back of 11 here up North. If you think of hours as milestones you are walking towards it makes sense.

And we say 11 while 12 (between these two times) but actually the most common use is for shifts eg "I'm on lates this week: two while ten".

Under the hood it's the same as saying "I'll go to the bank while you do the shopping", which you could reformulate (awkwardly) as "I will go to the bank during the time you spend shopping and until you complete this task". So it means during the period: two until ten = two while ten. It's an older way of saying the same thing.

while(n.)
"span of time," especially "short space of time during which something is to happen or be done or certain conditions prevail;"

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I was a student in Scotland, but born and brought up in the Home Counties.

I can't abide nearside/offside because they make no sense. And however many times anyone has said 'back of' means after the hour, it makes no sense either. To my way of thinking 'back of' is the hour hand coming up from behind towards the top of the hour. It is utterly illogical for it to mean after the hour.

This thread has helped me understand why everyone in my social/work circle look at my as if I have a second head when I say 'outwith'. I have used it all my adult life and had no clue it was a word I had picked up north of the border!

It is a word. I’m not Scottish, have never lived there and wasn’t aware it was considered Scottish dialect. It’s a perfectly normal (if perhaps a little old fashioned) word to me.

I've never heard "the back of eleven" either.

I would have thought of it as being just before eleven because I picture units of time all facing forward into the future, so if it's at the back of, ie behind, it must come earlier in time.

I used to know a Canadian who would say "a quarter of eleven." I thought she meant quarter past eleven, because it sounds like a quarter into the eleventh hour, but it actually means quarter to eleven.