Liverpool parade attacker

[IthinkIamAnAlien]

I don't know where else to paste this, it's about a guy, not drunk or on drugs but stressed who lost it and rammed through people in a crowd. He's on trial.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c8xd97z0k00t

I find myself thinking that it's absolutely an example of the state of our roads, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

Where I live, edge of the Cotswolds, the roads are jammed and people break the rules all the time, not giving way, especially on roundabouts, speeding, cutting in where there isn't space, tail gating, flashing lights, using mobile phones while driving, just generally pushing their way through. The size of modern cars with their horrendous, blinding headlights doesn't help, nor do all the potholes. And then there's the anti cyclist rage which is usually pointless and nitpicking.

Round our way, cows on the local common get mown down by hit and run drivers. I'm afraid I get this guy. Apparently he keeps crying in the dock, I feel sorry for him

Why on earth do you feel bad for him?

If you can't stay calm in a stressful situation then you shouldn't have a driving license.

There are simply a lot of people who shouldn't drive because they don't have the skill level or personality to do so safely. He clearly is one of them.

I hope whatever sentence he gets includes a lifelong driving ban.

"State of the roads" - what on earth are you on about? This was a city centre when a pre-planned parade was taking place. Not at all normal driving conditions.

@IthinkIamAnAlien if reading about a 6 month old baby being flung into the air by a man in a Ford Galaxy using it as a weapon makes you ponder traffic issues in the Cotswolds you may well need to question your level of self-absorption .

I keep thinking there must be a reason for his behaviour but that’s because I can’t comprehend why he didn’t stop, locks his doors if he felt unsafe and wait for help.

I listened to the DM podcast on this, he seemed to have anger problems previously too. He was crying buckets in court when he finally admitted guilt after letting it get all the way to trial. He was only crying because he got caught. What a vile little coward he is. He drove at families with children. Football in Liverpool is a family event as it is in many other places in the UK. He knew the roads would be busy, he chose to be arrogant enough to think he would get through. I hope they lock him up and throw the key away.

I don't feel sorry for him but I do for his family.

Something happened. He drove normally to drop of a friend but noticeably more aggressively on the way back.

And then was in an even more wound up state on the return journey which was several hours later.

But most of it doesn't fit with the impression others had of his usual state. And yet no drink or drugs. It is very odd.

You feel sorry for a man who forced his car into a closed street full of people, then chose instead of just - stopping the car! - to drive forwards and hit numerous people, including a baby in a pushchair?! Are you insane? Literrally every second he had the choice to stop, hit the brake, and not endanger anyone else. He just kept going until he was made to stop by force.

What the hell is there to feel sorry for him about?!

No I do not feel sorry for him.
I'm not sure how anyone can after listening to what is being presented in court today. There was one comment which really stood out about him thinking he was the most important person on the street that day.

It says it all really.

TBF that's opinion, and we've only heard from the prosecution so far.

There will be some "balance" to come, and I imagine they'll try and get some sympathy for stupid, but scared trapped man.

See also Darrell Brooks in the US. There's no excuse.

I can see (and do see) people being frustrated with traffic and jumping ahead at traffic lights/roundabout or trying to push in. I also see people on phones or doing their makeup. It’s a leap to go from bullying your way in at the traffic lights to using your car as a weapon to deliberately harm people.

I get you on the state of the roads. You know when you hit a pothole and you wince, wonder if it’s done any damage to your car, hope you don’t need to buy a new tire or get your tyres realigned and you slow down slightly to listen for any possible damage. It’s very frustrating. But you’re saying you can hear when you hit a pothole and slow down to listen to damage but this man can’t hear when he hits a pram with a baby in it?

Of course he’s crying in the stand. He inflicted male violence on a group of innocent people and realised he’s going to jail. Where he might be inflicted to more male violence. It’s not out of regret of his actions or because he got a bit frustrated that roads were closed but because he’s realising his actions have consequences.

@Flowerslamp he really doesn’t seem like he was scared, from the description of the dash cam footage. He sounds like he was angry and frustrated, not scared. From his own words and the actions that have been described.

I agree, I was just pointing out that he felt he was the most important person there is just an opinion put forward by the prosecution. It might be true, but it's not fact.

Tbh it was my opinion at the time. Just another self important entitled man inflicting violence on others ...using a1.5tonne car as a weapon.

I find it unbelievable that OP, or anyone , is defending the man's actions.

I also think to start a thread about this while the trial is ongoing is a very dubious thing to do.

It’s not a trial - he has pleaded guilty as several people have flagged.

It is an ongoing hearing.

I think that comment would be best left until after the hearing is concluded.

The only conclusion will be the sentence.

And nothing said now can prejudice the hearing, so we can comment as we please.

It's not sub judice tho to say he did this – as he has admitted it. I agree that perhaps the time to comment on what he did is after the hearing. Though I think most people's comments are not disputable anyway. What happened was horrific, whatever he says in mitigation.

Isn’t sub judice the rule that MPs can’t comment on ‘live’ cases while debating in Parliament?

Tbh why OP or anyone is defending the man's actions is beyond me.
I think the point of debate will be about the punishment that is meted out.

Not just MPs. Anyone!

So a newspaper can report what was said in court but it cannot publish (for example) a piece by an alleged victim "my story" type thing until the defendant is found guilty.

No such rule in the US so (to me) shocking reports appear there.

You think the public are forbidden from discussing live matters?

Sub judice primarily applied to debates in Parliament but in essence means anything that has the power to influence an ongoing court case.

Firstly this man has pleaded guilty so there is no influence of outcome to be had.

Secondly a Judge will be sentencing him according to sentencing guidelines and will be a professional who is not affected by idle gossip on Mumsnet.

I think we are safe to continue our discussion.

What an awful case of road rage. Horrific details and must be very upsetting.

I hope he spends many years in prison.

Yes I agree there is no issue around sub judice in those case, as I said.

It applies to newspapers, magazines and yes websites. Even this one. Newspaper editors have been prosecuted in the past.

But yes, only in an ongoing trial.