Is this effectively bullying going people with SEND into unsuitable jobs?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqlke33

So reading between the lines the below policy about getting young people off benefits into work this is effectively part of the strategy on SEND/welfare spending. The question is what are the young people in benefits.....many will have send an h as autism and ADHD so jobs in construction and hospitality will be completely inappropriate and maybe harmful. Can you imagine the sensitive autistic 19 year old man working on a building site or the highly anxious going women taking on the brutal work culture of hospitality when companies are cutting staff to the bone because of increased employment costs.

Is this a reasonable policy or one to appease reform voters where reform seem to be waging a war against SEND costs?

I think the OP and people like her are the problem
it would have been incredibly easy for me to write my son off from an early age due to his dyslexia dyspraxia and his mild learning difficulties

i think a parent like the OP and her attitude would have definitely written my son off as useless

I never claimed DLA for him although I’m sure I could have done as he was diagnosed at around 5 years old

I just got on with teaching him to be resilient and if you fail at first hurdle just try again cos eventually you will get there .

He learnt to ride a bike and that took him forever but once he could ride it safely he would ride his bike every day with his mates

He learnt to drive at 17 took him 4 try’s but he got there eventually & having that licence has also made a massive difference to being able to work in different cities and freedom

He burned through 3 clutches due to his dyspraxia so he drives an automatic now 😂

It’s about some adaptions and getting the right job for your skills whatever they might be

my son could never ever work in a office
& I don’t think he could work in construction either but in security sector he has numerous options for work

The numbers indicated in the article are a very small percentage, indicating about a thousand in a placement out of nearly a million not doing anything, with advise from work coaches and placements being carefully considered.

Hardly bullying.

Hopefully the 1000 that get placed go on to have a better future than the trajectory they are currently on .

What’s the alternative? Expect employers to create perfect jobs with bespoke working conditions for everyone? Which is never going to happen.

And it’s more positive than Reform, Reform would just say no one can claim benefits until 25 in the hope that if the parents have to keep paying for their adult children they will make them get a job. That’s more like bullying.

But it sounds like no one will have to do anything they don’t want to.

It's great to get young people into work to gain skills. Even if they don't stay in the sector, skills are transferable amd it is easier to get another job with work experience. I have kids with additional needs and one is likely to need more support to be able to work than the other. I fully hope they will both be working though, not written off and on benefits.

Absolutely bang on

I think the wider issue is that there are very good reasons why some sectors struggle to recruit and retain staff.

It is usually because the jobs are poorly paid, physically exhausting and lack a proper career path.

Employers, in a social care sector for example, need to take a good look at themselves and why they fail to train and pay their staff correctly.

I can't think of anything worse than trying to push a young person to become a carer when they have no interest or aptitude for the job. It is not fair on the vulnerable or old people who are looked after by carers.

Construction jobs also need a good level of physical fitness and are not suitable for everyone.

I think this is as usual a blunt, headline grabbing policy by government who fail to consider the details and feasibility of what they are proposing.

I agree with you, and what kind of life is it when people are made to feel like they’re useless. It really doesn’t benefit anyone. In trying to be accommodating, we’ve actually gone to far and done the opposite.

I work in hospitality and we employ a lot of autistic people and a couple with more severe LDs. It’s actually a very nurturing environment - but that is down to the management team who genuinely care about the staff and have a zero tolerance policy for any kind of rudeness or abuse towards them. So it can be done, though I admit it’s rare.

If we want more SEN people in work, then workplaces need to be trained in how to support those people to give their best.

This. So much this. The 'neurodiversity movement' has effectively infantilised tens of thousands of young adults into believing that life on earth should be a fluffy cloud of safe spaces and zero discomfort, challenge or growth. I'm ND with a ND DH and DC. Our household works and DC are raised to understand that work is a necessity, pleasurable work is a bonus. They see that sometimes people have to retrain or upskill to find the work they enjoy.

You might find some of those youngsters quickly decide that a supermarket job or return to college are highly desirable versus working on a building site. Equally many young men will find a fitness and camaraderie on a building site they never had spending their teens online gaming and watching porn.

I think it’s so sad that so many young people are out of work or education - what are they going to do with their lives?

They will have no purpose in life and just get MH issues and have no chance of working in the future.

That being said, it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis and the work offered PT initially.

I remember I lost my job and was forced to work voluntarily. I was a single parent so had to put her into childcare and had to pay for transport out of my very little job seekers allowance which made me worse off.
If I refused then my money would be stopped.

Fortunately I didn’t have to do it very long as I got accepted for a job that I had applied for but it was so unfair as I was genuinely looking for work and I was forced to work FT and had the associated expenses, but not be paid for it. And still find the time to search and apply for jobs whilst being a single parent.
It was shocking.

Tbf a lot of construction worker start off young with very little strength, and they very quickly build the physical fitness. Fitness is something that you can change for the most.

I do agree re the care side, I don’t agree that you can teach the skills on how to be a caring person. Some people have it naturally, and are very good at it.

You have zero understanding of neurodiversity.

you seem to think everyone who has ADHD or everyone who has ASD is the same.

many people with adhd and/or ASD will excel in construction and/or hospitality. Just like some neuro typical people will or won’t.

we aren’t a homogeneous lump

Are you coming back @mids2019? Was this at attempt to polish your #bekind halo?

I really wish politicians would shout this from the rooftops. My dad (obvious and severe ADHD) made a brilliant life for himself because of the skills he learned on sites, not least how to stop getting into fights all the time. He's nearly 80 now and still can't bloody sit still! Putting him in a desk job would have killed him but post-Blair parents started to look down on trades and insist every young person does ALevels and goes to university. It's setting them up for failure and misery.

My ADHD is very different, it's much more mental hyperactivity, so I found professional roles that are challenging and stimulating and rarely boring. We all need meaningful work.

It says they will be offered places, rather than forced to take up places. I think it's great that we are no longer writing off people with additional needs.

Its not just about young peoole with SEND ,I have a non academic 19 year old who really wants an apprenticeship but struggles with the basic academic requirements ,
He's currently on a college course that offers 19 weeks work experience, which im hoping will lead to a job ,he just wants to work.

Exactly this
Sometimes finding those opening opportunities is the biggest hurdle, if you can link up young adults and placements that’s surely a good thing.

We have two quite academic, not ND, teen boys, we’ve told them when they first start work they start at the bottom and do as they are asked to the best of their ability if that is sweeping floors and putting bins out.

And this is hopefully the start, although watch a right wing government shut it down, of opening those doors.

https://school-return-program.com/return-to-school-quiz

It's so strange to see the attitudes have not changed OP! My dad's cousin was SEN 70 years ago, not allowed to do anything for himself and was treated as an incapable disabled man. When his parents passed away when he was in his 40's, he was them moved to an assisted living department. I can remember my mum coming back from a visit, saying he was a changed man. Was encouraged to do things for himself, shopping, cleaning, cooking and had a part time job. He absolutely thrived, mum was really taken aback how happy he was, something she'd never really seen.

Any youngster, be it SEN or not will start to gain confidence, independence and those things are invaluable. After all, parents won't be around forever, it's far better to encourage these people into work and a better life. They just have to ensure the job suits them and have support offered.

Why have you straight away put the boy into construction and the girl into hospitality!?

The hypothetical boy in your scenario might really like hospitality. The image of construction just being big burly men is so outdated as well! The girl might thrive as an electrician or plumber, painter or tiling etc… so many different skills needed.

What we really don’t need is more stereotyping!

When I think off the top of my head of people I know with ADHD and their jobs they are firefighters, emergency department nurses, police, military, therapists, teachers, work in media or performing arts, a PhD student. None of them are sitting at home on benefits. All have made use of their skills, talents and temperaments. Our horrible education system is trying to treat children as productivity units not humans, then wondering why they are breaking. This policy could be a real lifeline for many young people.

Out of curiosity, why didn't you claim DLA for him?

So what do you suggest for the 15% or so of the population who are neurodiverse? Should they resign themselves to never working because it’s too hard? Loose all the non-financial benefits of working - gaining confidence, developing skills, the social benefits of working?

Not everyone is suited to every job but there are some jobs that will suit. My DD has autism, she’s be fabulous in hospitality - she’s social, outgoing and loves taking care of people. Yes there may be parts of the environment she finds tricky but that’s the case for everyone. My DS has ADHD, I can see him going into a trade, he’s very practical and hands on.

The alternative is leaving these young people languishing in their bedrooms. We really don’t do them any favours by assuming they’re incapable or shouldn’t learn to manage things that are difficult.

I am not arguing about that.

My point is that the funding will be aimed at young people who are not registered at SEND as that funding is a completely different budget. If someone under 25 presents at NEET, they will be under the SEND service of their local authority. This article about funding is for YP who are NEET for reasons other than SEND.

Op, I wouldn’t look at this as a negative. It’s a way of trying out and learning new skills. You may come across a job which isn’t suited but it is better to try than to sit at home doing nothing surely?

That may be so, but your daughter will still be under SEND (even as NEET) and any education, employment or training that she partakes in up to 25 will come from SEND budgets. They would have a legal duty to reassess the EHCP again up until 25 if they were to engage in education or training.

This article is nothing to do with SEND.