Is this effectively bullying going people with SEND into unsuitable jobs?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqlke33

So reading between the lines the below policy about getting young people off benefits into work this is effectively part of the strategy on SEND/welfare spending. The question is what are the young people in benefits.....many will have send an h as autism and ADHD so jobs in construction and hospitality will be completely inappropriate and maybe harmful. Can you imagine the sensitive autistic 19 year old man working on a building site or the highly anxious going women taking on the brutal work culture of hospitality when companies are cutting staff to the bone because of increased employment costs.

Is this a reasonable policy or one to appease reform voters where reform seem to be waging a war against SEND costs?

It is incredibly important to get young people into the workplace. All studies show that being unemployed for a period when young can blight someones entire life far more profoundly than the same period as an adult - effectively if you miss out on the experience when young you may never 'catch up'.

Todays young people are no different to other young people throught the ages, despite the recent increase in labeling. Work has been and always will be the best thing for the majority of young people.

Oh bore off. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are probably part of the be kind brigade, which actually isn't very kind at all. What's good about people rotting at home because they can't get a job? I have a son who is desperate to work, but can't get or hold down a job because of his learning and motor coordination difficulties. This is one of the few good things this government has actually suggested. People like you boil my piss frankly.

This wouldn't be my view at all and I think may be based on slightly old-fashioned and simplistic views of ND.
Both jobs have elements that are great for ND. Hospitality could be difficult for burnout foe some who struggle with people, but not necessarily by any means. Construction is very wide-ranging so can accommodate many different people.

Work culture over specific sector, every time. The worst bullying I experienced at work was - ironically - in disability sector.

When did ADHD become an indictment that someone can’t do anything? Growing up I’ve always heard of ADHD but it was never seen as a disability that would prevent you from studying or working, I feel like this is a relatively new thing? I’m in my 30s.
Someone having ADHD, autism (to an extent) or anxiety shouldn’t stop them from engaging in day to day life. If anything, sitting at home doing nothing will make it worse.

Anxiety is worked on by exposure. I used to throw up every morning before work just from the sheer panic of having to go, but I had no other option and eventually the feeling faded.
ADHD may not fit every job, but there will be a job. DP did a wide range of jobs until he got additional diagnosis (he’s been diagnosed with ADHD since childhood but turns out dyslexia and Tourette’s went unnoticed) that helped him understand himself better and now he’s on his way to getting his degree, something he just couldn’t imagine before.
I have 2 coworkers who are autistic and while one is particularly unlikeable (….just like many “neurotypical” people) and is there pretty much against his will, but he is perfectly capable of working and clocking in every day. Guess what, I’d rather stay home too but here we are. The other one has his quirks and amazing attention to detail.

Theres nothing wrong with working in construction or hospitality. A job is a job.

I think supporting people into work is essential. I think its a good start bjt coukd do wigh more sectors. My regions left out which is annoying.

But I do hope the scheme treats them as individuals and doesnt just go this person with autism managed this role so this person with autism will too. Its a spectrum disorder so it impacts differently and its poorly understood, even by people who have one presentation may not see how it impact another. Putting some autistic people in construction would be dangerous. Others would thrive. In hospitality some will thrive, but others will just not have the communication skills.

I dont know so much about adhd.

It's not just those and it's common for people with autism to be in hospitality.

There is an untapped workforce within people with SEND who don't feel safe working a job OP.

This is why I want the school system changed to bring in trades. Let the academics crack on and find out what interests the rest. Find their thing early. Everyone is good at something, it's finding it.

I work in construction and we basically run on ADHD! Some of our best workers have ADHD, they sometimes need more support with the academic side of their apprenticeships but we can offer that and it’s so worth it to see them thrive. We also have people with autism who also do really well in the workplace. Building sites aren’t like they used to be, it’s not all bullying apprentices and toxic masculinity anymore. There’s a job out there for everyone, some people just need more support to find the right one and do well in it. It’s not helpful at all to say everyone with SEND is incapable of working in these industries.

This post and other similar ones give me hope for my 14 year old AuDHD DD, who couldn’t cope in secondary school and is now home educated, thank you.

I wouldn't assume that all people with SEND are unsuitable for those particular jobs but I do think a big thing that is missing is adaptations, reasonable adjustments and patient colleagues and customers.

There's no use doing all of this if those with SEND still have to fight so hard for reasonable adjustments and then have colleagues who moan about reasonable adjustments but would also moan if they were on benefits too.

Thank you
he's a great young man and I’m very proud of him
honestly as a young kid I thought he would never leave home or get a job

But I basically treated him like training one of my dogs when he was little 😂

clear boundaries , routines , strict but fair

and massively over socialising with clubs and activities from a young age so he would be confident and find stuff he enjoyed and make lots of different friends

I think this was the most important bit as from doing lots of clubs and activities it gave him confidence and social skills from
a young age that a lot of young people are lacking in general

And he wasn’t allowed to give up straight away either he had to go at least 3 times

Surely these would be reasons for no one to do those jobs though. They’re not for everyone but nothing is, saying those jobs aren’t suitable for anyone with a SEND doesn’t take in to account the skills and attributes of individuals regardless of any additional needs. It’s really much better for everyone if the focus is on what people can do, not immediately assuming they can’t.

I don’t think they are “ brutal “ sectors. Every sector has bad employers, unpleasant customers etc. The trick is matching the right person to the right job.

It's very disablist, in a patronizing 'mother knows best' way and making assumptions about whole groups of people with no consideration of individual needs.

My neice with ADHD works 2 jobs, 1 in hospitality and another in a nursery with children with SEND need.

My other neice with Autism and ADHD works in a busy nursery.

My SIL with ADHD wotks in care.

Because someone has a SEND need doesnt mean they cant work, that is incredibly insulting.

I work in a supermarket. We had a guy with additional needs doing one simple task for literally decades. Never did anything else. Nobody, including him, thought he could handle the relatively higher pressure of doing anything else. Circumstances change and he had to do something else. He chose customer service desk and is great at it. Sometimes you have to give something a try before writing it off as unsuitable.

The trick is matching the right person to the right job.

This! I have ADHD and autism. The difference in how I function in a suitable environment v an unsuitable one - it’s night and day. I was late diagnosed like many women so found out the hard way, by trying and burning out of many different jobs and workplaces. There are now a lot more resources available about the kinds of jobs that might suit someone with a typical “would’ve been Aspergers” kind of autism, beyond work in IT or the library, and the same for ADHD. Plus both are now understood in a more nuanced way. People need support to see themselves as potentially valuable employees who can find a place in the world of work.

My daughter works in hospitality (and has ADHD) and loves it, she tried office work and was bored stupid. I do get your point about young people with SEND being forced into unsuitable jobs though.

But it’s not about SEND

SEND up to 25 years old is already budgeted and provided for.

This will be for young people who are NEET without a SEND diagnosis.

Try keeping an EHCP past 18. It's like pure war.

How will they support themselves financially without working unless they are of means/family money?
last I heard a home, food and utilities cost money ? So how will they fund this for a lifetime if not through earning an income?

These kind of supportive schemes are fantastic, my brother has Asperger’s (not sure they categorise Asperger’s as different from autism now? But anyway…)he’s early 40’s and has been supported by one of these type of schemes for the last 10/15 years, working as a court administrator. He works full time on a good salary and excellent civil service pensions.

Both the employer and the people running the scheme are super supportive. Before this job, he was flitting unhappily between menial jobs and unemployment for years, with severe depression, suicidal thoughts, hoarding tendencies, etc. This job has made him independent, pays his own rent and bills, gives him the human contact and socialisation he needs and has massively improved his MH. Honestly believe he would have been dead without this.

People with disabilities or neurodiversity are just like everyone else, in that they will thrive in the right environment!

Hiring managers need to have a basic understanding of neurodiversity and disability. And there needs to be a culture of greater curiosity and flexibility.

This is something that could be tackled with some free to access online training resources for employers.

There are lots of people with autism or ADHD in the construction industry. Have you been on a professional building site recently? It’s not like the negative stereotype you are claiming in your OP.

Only if the person is able to engage and wants to continue in education. My DC burnt out at 17 and was NEET at 19 , now 24. They were in no fit state to engage with work or education and their EHCP was ceased at 21.

I have hope that they will one day work part time or do regular volunteering but I think they find people and demands too much of an ordeal to ever work full time. They have an occasional job (think looking after a neighbour's cat when they are away) which has been really helpful for their sense of competence.