The working world has become ridiculous

[Rothschild]

Recently a manager at my company attended an online meeting in tears because of a minor issue regarding her child's school. She excused herself from the meeting and took a mental health day.

I can barely get hold of anyone at 3pm in my (large) organisation because everyone is doing school pick up. I don't believe they're getting much work done once they've picked up because they become hard to contact, don't respond to messages and won't attend meetings, despite it being their normal working hours.

It's ridiculous. When our children were small we paid for wrap around childcare or for someone to collect. We were available to work between 3 and 4pm and afterwards.

I'm not talking about anyone who has negotiated flexibility or finishes at 3pm, I'm talking about others who are, frankly, taking the piss.

And if I had taken a mental health day every time I'd had some difficulty in my life I'd have hardly worked.

Nail on the head. Public sector service levels have fallen off a cliff and show no signs of improvement. At least businesses seem to be slowly improving customer service again now.

Absolutely. I’m NT and of course there are mornings or extended periods where you need to brace before going into the office, put on a smile, shift into focus and be someone else. Where dickheads ask you for something that’s not your job and is stupid anyway and you just need to take a deep breath and move past it. This ‘masking’ is a regular part of life for most people who are good at anything, let’s not pretend you flip a switch and you have someone nd , it’s all a series of personality traits and capabilities everyone has some form of, and in some people that becomes diagnosable. But we all mask. Selling anyone the delusion that if you find something hard you should get to opt out is selling them failure.

Those hours would suit me if everyone left so early. I like to interact with colleagues up to a point but I love working alone.

Really! What evidence do you have to support this assertion? Too many people have learnt how to work the system. Yes, I do have evidence of this happening, including people supposedly off sick with MH issues but simultaneously doing other jobs.

NHS i bet!!!

The colleague is doing both though, she’s working and earning money and also there for her family? If everyone is ‘taking the piss’ at work, and things like home working where allowing pick ups in the afternoon, and taking mental health days, are allowed, then perhaps it’s not ‘taking the piss’, but actually an employer that’s encouraging a work life balance?

I agree with what you're saying about the need for co-ordination, @BrownTroutBluesAgain. What I'm trying to say is that it is rarely necessary to have ALL the bums on ALL the seats for the SAME fixed hours every day. In fact, efficiency would normally be increased by phased working hours, perhaps covering a longer total day.

The point is, you should have fewer people popping in and out like space particles if you apply intelligent time distribution. In the case you described, you know who's going to be needed for a certain project so you organise things to ensure you're all available during the same hours.

If one of the required people is responsible for school pick-up and another has to get their dad up in the morning, you plan that in. Many workplaces have always done this on an informal basis, but that can create misunderstandings and resentments. In the vast majority of cases, an appropriately planned overlapping shift system would make everyone happier and improve efficiency (by removing a good half of the excuses for skipping work!)

There may well be some fields of work that can only be done by everybody at the same time - I'm not saying this is a universal solution. I'm suggesting that the assumption everyone must be present all together, all the time, is false in most cases and could be more effectively managed.

Well said

The unwritten rules have definitely changed since Covid. It now seems totally fine to go and drop off kids and collect them after school. Yes, people do work different hours than previously, so might log on earlier or later in the evening so it’s hard to gauge but I’m sure some people do take the piss.

We’ve basically agreed I think
that not all jobs and professions are equal in terms of ability to adopt a flexible approach to working

If people want flexibility they should chose accordingly
with 🕵️ on the contract

@Marieb19 this is what I gave experienced too - people actually working 2 jobs, whilst being paid full time for one. Now if this is fine and dandy with the full time employer and do long as you get your work done it’s no big deal then ok, but I’m pretty sure many plenty have no idea that this is going on in their paid time

Most employers have a 6 month probation period anyway so it just formalises that.

Two years was and is ridiculous, you shouldn't be able to remove someone's livelihood for a whole two years without good reason.

But I hope that because the 6 months comes in in 2027, employers might be more willing to hire people in 2026 because they will have the two years.

I stopped masking when I was 25 because it was making me severely depressed. I do mask at work, but that means I come home and have a meltdown. As I currently finish at 1am, that's affecting my sleep. Many things that are "very common" are also symptoms of NDs, something many undiagnosed people don't want to believe.

And those undiagnosed ND people who don't want to believe, and I think I know many of them, are girding their loins and going into work.

I'm ND myself and it's getting harder to deal with a I get older and I'm happy I'm retired.

There are ND people who really can't cope with work, or at least with full time work. I'm sorry if you'll are one of those. But it's also the case that there are ND people who are having no more difficulty than some non ND people and that fact, I believe, should be more acknowledged by those who are ND than it is.

I also agree with the 6 month period not day one. No assessment or interview process can identify some of the things that make someone unsuitable for a job in reality. The person who never meets a deadline, who snaps at others, who is late too often, to give three examples.

I think it’s great, it’s even better that more and more men now leave meetings to go and collect their kids. I know most parents log back in in the evening to catch up. My kids go to wrap around care 3 days out of 5, I love those days when I can pop out and collect them on time. Life is far too short to put work before anything else.

I’m actually surprised to read this because my “family run” company are the complete opposite. I changed my hours because I couldn’t afford the wraparound childcare which is expensive in my area and my manager bullied me for changing hours and then replaced my position with her daughter. I still have a job but not the same role. I hate working with the manager and her daughter because of course it’s a conflict of interest. I worked from home because my daughter was ill. I didn’t realise it wasn’t allowed because my manager does it all the time and I can do the exact same job at home but I got into trouble over it.

if I take 1 sick day I have to attend a meeting over it. Just 1.
you can imagine the rest I’m sure. No mental health days, no sympathy, no nothing. I need my car for work. It’s in my contract that I have to use my own car for business purposes. My manager made me put I a holiday to collect my car from its MOT AND SERVICE so I could get it before it closed at 5pm which was within my working hours.

I hate my company they are awful.

I think employers are the ones who have responsibilities to their employees. People are vulnerable and not always able to work; employers have a duty of care to their employees. This includes treating them well instead of replacing them when productivity falls. Trust the people you have signed on for what they can be, and not for immediate performance. The employee depends on the employer more than the employer depends on the employee.

Sorry OP did I miss the bit where you told me you’re a registered mental health practitioner? Who the hell are you to decide what is and isn’t a bit deal for someone and what is and isn’t a ‘genuine mental health issue’. I doubt your colleague is dislocating everything that goes on behind closed doors, and you have no idea what happens in people’s lives after they log off. When someone is mentally resilient they can handle ‘minor’ issues (as you put it), more effectively than someone who isn’t mentally resilient due to a mental health issue that may not be abundantly obvious to an observer!

As someone who works in employment and equality law, this thread has once again proven just how much people live in their own selfish bubbles, and assume that if they are able to do something/deal with something, so should everyone else be.

I’d be interested to know whether the OP is male or female and what country they’re from. I’m assuming the USA given the reference to mental health days, but if you do happen to be in the UK please clue yourself up on the equality act and legislation around flexible working before you land yourself in trouble.

I would love to work full time. My boss has cut everyone's hours. I'm saying that RSD is real, it's not an excuse, but it should be adapted for.

I don't know why you've quoted me on that post, I didn't write a single thing that disagreed with it. How about you answer the point I actually made which is that it would be good if more ND people could acknowledge that you don't have to be neuro diverse to have a difficult life?

You do not have to preach to me that rejection sensitivity is real, with ADHD I have lived with it all my life. However, rejection sensitivity is an extreme reaction unwarranted by the situation, by definition, and I have not lived my life expecting everyone around me to change because I am over sensitive.

You quoted my comment about RSD. You also said you were sorry if my ND made it difficult for me to work full time or at all.

Calling RSD being oversensitive is minimising. Employers have to make reasonable adjustments for NDs and if RSD is part of your ND they should make reasonable adjustments for that too. I don't have RSD but I know several people who do. It's not difficult to modify language or make sure you acknowledge what your employee has said.

Are you ever going to acknowledge that you don't have to be ND to find going to work tough?

Oh, and please don't tell me how to describe my own condition.

It is minimising though. That's like saying having your leg cut off hurts a little. And you think I just find going to work "tough"? That would be nice.

DO NOT TELL ME HOW I AM ALLOWED AND NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT MYSELF!