The working world has become ridiculous

[Rothschild]

Recently a manager at my company attended an online meeting in tears because of a minor issue regarding her child's school. She excused herself from the meeting and took a mental health day.

I can barely get hold of anyone at 3pm in my (large) organisation because everyone is doing school pick up. I don't believe they're getting much work done once they've picked up because they become hard to contact, don't respond to messages and won't attend meetings, despite it being their normal working hours.

It's ridiculous. When our children were small we paid for wrap around childcare or for someone to collect. We were available to work between 3 and 4pm and afterwards.

I'm not talking about anyone who has negotiated flexibility or finishes at 3pm, I'm talking about others who are, frankly, taking the piss.

And if I had taken a mental health day every time I'd had some difficulty in my life I'd have hardly worked.

I was going to reply to the poster you responded to in a similar vein, CheeseIsMyIdol

Though retired now recruitment was my field, and even several years ago this attitude was spreading among employers

A case of the employed being careful what they wish for perhaps?

It’s almost as though you are questioning my intellect but I’m sure that wouldn’t be the case, you’re too smart for that.

And if they buy the excavator they no longer need some or all of those employees?

I know someone that did a hybrid role and was running their side hustle for at least 2 or 3 hours a day during working hours on the days they were at home - I’m sorry mumsnetters don’t like it if you mention that sadly their are piss takers as it does suit many really diligent people , but there really are and it’s not easy to monitor in a fair few jobs.. - my H in his early 60s is an in demand freelancer who has to deal with a lot of 30s and 40s females , some with kids, some not, all of who have hybrid roles and he can’t believe how impossible it is to get any quite urgent responses at all on days they aren’t in the office , he deals with a few guys too who are a bit like this but the issues he finds are mainly with women employees - an awful lot of weeks off too with sickness/ mental health .

You see o have no issue at all with that, but it isn’t what’s happening with many others- there’s no emails at 9pm ( even if you don’t respond) no sign of any work at all post 2.45pm in many cases -

Do they also not hire disabled people, or humans in general, in case anyone becomes sick in their lifetime, or their parent falls ill? How awful.

You'll find that they'll invest in AI though - look forward to lots of redundancies.

Yes, it can totally depend on your manager That's where HR should come in and make sure the rules are being applied consistently regardless of the individual preferences of the manager.

I'd have reported that comment TBH - so unprofessional (unless she's a doctor - but even then!)

I have kids with mental-health challenges, so I’m very aware of how important it is to support people and to take their needs seriously. At the same time, I do feel like some parts of the system have gone off the rails.

In the beginning of October, I gave a performance review to a brand-new staff member. She’d been struggling in the role, and instead of letting her go, I chose to give her a chance to improve. Shortly afterward, she went on paid medical leave and has been away ever since. She’s entitled to up to six months of leave, and it seems likely she’ll take the full time.

.A lot can be avoided by experience and common sense when it comes to employing staff

Once bitten

@ccfccci
responding to emails and calls in the evenings after people have taken time off in the working day is no good in my industry
That could cost consultants and builders time and money
Then we just look irresponsible

It would make very little difference if you’re doing extra time if you’re doing it at the wrong time. Obv this is dependent on the project stage, but we need to rely on our staff at all stages

I’m only saying what works for my husband in his job role, obviously everyone is different. If things are being done then surely it’s up to management to sort that out

Wow!

Exactly, I guess she expected a "good job" and a sticker instead of a constructive criticism. Our unit is really small and we cannot afford to hire a replacement while she is away, so her work has fallen on me. I am so stressed and overworked that I feel I should be taking a stress leave now. 😫

At our place the boss took to hiring men instead of women, due to women going on mat.leave.

The two recent male starters have both recently taken the full entitlement pat.leave (about twelve weeks, we live abroad).

The first guy has had two kids, so two pat.leaves.

The second guy is due to go on his second pat leave April next year.

Why don’t you get a job where you can wfh then?!
I’m in the office at least 4 days but don’t understand the moaning about others having a more “laidback” way of life. It’s not a race to the bottom!

What if they took the job way before they had kids? I mean, not at your workplace of course because you don't employ anyone under the age of 60, but I mean other, less fictional workplaces?

I can assure you that many of the people who I know WFH are not laidback or slackers at all. They are often juggling the childcare, school runs and other drop off as well.

Yes in time critical jobs I do appreciate that’s of no use to man nor beast

Mental ill health is like physical ill health - your employer should require you to get a doctor's note (fit note) documenting that you are mentally ill and when you will be fit to return to work.
If this is a general trend, I think employers should, where practicable, move towards reducing sick pay and sick leave entitlement. In a company that only pays statutory sick pay (no pay for the first 3 days, and then a very reduced rate of pay) you'll see far less sickness absence.

So, what is the alternative? You don't meet the requirements of the job if you can't work Christmas Day - police, fire, nurse, medic, doctor, transport agency, IT, whatever. You expect everyone else to pick up that slack?

There are paid carers, you can develop a relationship with a neighbour or college student or nursery worker who can act as babysitter as needed. Not everyone is Christian or celebrates Christmas; surely there is a pool of people out there, IF you search them out well in advance of need and develop a babysitting relationship.

The answer to this is absolutely obvious. If, due to new family commitments (whether having children you for some reason are unable to organise childcare for or looking after elderly parents or a newly disabled husband) you can't do the job, then you hand in your resignation.

Having said that, you can apply for flexible working if that would enable you to do the job, but the employer is not required to agree to that if that doesn't work for them - for instance if you are offering to do the work at a time when the employer doesn't need the work to be done.

I'm beyond thrilled that the government has rowed back on its plan to allow employees to claim unfair dismissal from Day 1. Can you imagine what a nightmare that would have been for employers? I imagine lots of small employers would simply have thrown in the towel. Being able to claim after 6 months will be horrible enough for employers.

If you know you can’t get care for Christmas Day and Boxing Day, then find a job that doesn’t need you to work those days. There are plenty of them around.