Labour isn't working - Thread 22

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5448743-labour-isnt-working-thread-21?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Edwina Currie saying yesterday she didn’t know whether govt lied over budget or were simply incompetent but had they said pre election they were going to tax working people so that they could lift the 2 child benefit cap they wouldn’t have been elected. That was the “lie”.

It does feel as if we're dealing with massive complicated problems and no party has the will to sit down and unravel it in a sensible and kind way.

I am sure it just takes honesty and bravery to do it. I think a lot of politicians underestimate the capacity of normal people to understand an issue. Labour in particular just presume everyone is stupid, they speak down to people, use language that simplifies issues to the point of losing any meaning, expect people not to understand. I actually think this is partly their issue around the 'black hole' at it's core - they felt they didn't need to explain things to the ordinary person as they simply wouldn't understand because they are too thick. Yet the opposite seems to be true - people don't want soundbites and over simplified explanations - they want to engage in the issues and understand how they can be part of solving them.

Bravery, courage and saying what you actually think is certainly rare in politics right now, but I think it is coming back (optimistic maybe!) but Rupert Lowe is popular because he is brave, Kemi is actually pretty brave and you do know what she actually thinks about things - I think it will be the thing in the next election - who is actually able to tell the truth about what they really think.

It happened in the US election - Kamala Harris simply could not stomach a long form podcast with Joe Rogan, she would have been detected as a sham by anyone who listened to it, whereas Trump, for every one of his faults, went on Joe Rogan, Theo Von, the two biggest podcasters in the world, and talked freeform for 2+ hours - so at the very least you feel you actually know them.

Can you imagine Keir Starmer going on a non-scripted podcast like Triggernometry for 2+ hours? It's impossible. But I can imagine Rupert Lowe doing that - he is not hiding who he is. KS's form of communication wuith soundbites and obscivication is over. New media is where it is going to happen - so if a politician cannot stomach a freeform podcast, they aren't going to do very well over the next election cycles IMO.

YouGov polling
Reform 26 (+1)
Conservatives 19 (+1)
Labour 19 (nc)
Greens 16 (nc)
Lib Dems 14 (-)

Hard to believe that Labour hasn't been punished more for the shit-show around the budget. Especially when yougov's own polling around the budget shows a huge amount of discontent about its fairness and how worried people are about the economy.

I wonder if we have hit the loyalty threshold at this point - and found the demographic who'd vote Labour no-matter-what? I guess we'll see.

Issue is that Labour might win again because the votes for other parties will be split.

Now a Conservative/Reform coalition before the election. That would be a sight to behold with Sunak as Chancellor.

Labour would have to do some serious repair work with the public to win again. The most hopeful of MRP results doesn't give them half of the number of seats returned by Reform at the moment. Even in cahoots with their most likely ally - LibDems, they'd still fall a long way short of even matching Reform let alone the number of seats needed under the fptp system.

Reform and the Tories might have to cosy up to get it over the line.

Still though, a long way to go.

Also the 1984 ness of it.

Lammy - we need jury trials. We don’t.

We won’t raise taxes, we will

It’s all a bit we’ve never been at war with Eurasia. It’s why trust is so low.

They must be livid about what Reeves and Starmer have done to their colleague.

Reeves suffers another huge blow as surviving OBR staff throw her under the bus over Budget lies

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15344737/Reeves-suffers-huge-blow-surviving-OBR-staff-throw-bus-Budget-lies-Watchdog-chiefs-tell-MPs-set-record-straight-misleading-briefings-forecasts.html

Senior officials from the watchdog said they had to 'set the record straight' on what forecasts the Chancellor had been given after 'unhelpful' information appeared in the media.

This is what worries me, the people who are benefitting from this labour government at the expense of those of us who are not, will vote for labour no matter how dishonest and incompetent they are, because they are living a very comfortable life thanks to labour. It beggars belief that Rachel Reeves is still in a job after all of the dishonesty and bare faced lies she has told. But it would appear that absolutely nothing is going to happen to her. If I lied in my job, even once, and it didn't even affect anyone, I would be sacked. This woman's lies have cost millions of hard working tax payers their quality of life and yet she is untouchable, she continues in her job, getting well paid, telling more lies to cover up more lies and millions of us suffer the consequences.

According to some on other threads Labour are achieving good things “under cover”.

No words.

I know people on this thread are a very great deal more knowledgeable than me.

So I ask, if she has manufactured a budget based on lies which actively harms so many people- what is the recourse? I mean- she ought to resign, KS should resign. The budget ripped up and started again. Now OBVIOUSLY they are not going to do this, because they do not have any morals whatsoever- but does anyone know if there is an actual protocol for this sort of thing?

Under cover? 🤣 Bless

How funny.

I don’t mind if Reeves and Starmer don’t go yet, I’d like to see the local elections first and what they do post that.

Last time they panicked on WFA so we’ll see.

Yes. It's a kind of gas lighting that shows nothing but contempt for the public.

Idk tbh and I’m not sure why it’s all hung out as fake laundry for weeks beforehand.

The only upside is those polls, lower trust re the economy than Truss and Corbyn now.

I don't think so: not unless their own MPs rebel. MPs should actually be loyal to their constituents - not the party - but that's unfortunately not how it currently works.

With legislation such as ID cards and removingJury trials - which weren't in the manifesto - the Lords aren't bound to vote it through. But they ony get to reject it twice, and they can't reject the budget.

Painful though it is, the recourse we have is to vote against Labour in the next election. It feels like such a long time to allow them to continue to do damage, but in the timescales of the country, it's sufficient to have the course corrected every 5 years.

There is a positive to this argument.

The net recipients have no power - they take what they are given.

The net contributors can elect to cut back on their productivity etc. We, the tax payers, have the power.

The government and the welfare crowd would
do well to remember that.

Agree, also statistically welfare crowd notoriously poor at turning out to vote.

pstartled · Today 10:27
YouGov polling
Reform 26 (+1)
Conservatives 19 (+1)
Labour 19 (nc)
Greens 16 (nc)
Lib Dems 14 (-)
Hard to believe that Labour hasn't been punished more for the shit-show around the budget. Especially when yougov's own polling around the budget shows a huge amount of discontent about its fairness and how worried people are about the economy.
I wonder if we have hit the loyalty threshold at this point - and found the demographic who'd vote Labour no-matter-what? I guess we'll see.

The Labour Party could have a 'floor' level and around 18/19% maybe it . However, I don't think Labour ever poll what they are predicted to due to a large number of 'can't be arsed' to vote 'loyal' electorate. Secondly You guv are out of sync with the other pollsters on everybody but the Labour Party which is unusual. They are always polling Reform 4 or 5 points below the other pollsters in particular Find out Now.

Finally, Sorry to anyone who read the 'Rubbish' i posted yesterday afternoon. I was angry with DH and his encouragement for DS to 'Swear' at School. Hence DS getting a Detention and potentially putting a 'spanner' in the works about DS move to a Private School next September..

That may have more of an impact on Reform than Labour. The Times recently did some analysis on the "welfare crowd" and Reform support, it was an eye-opener.

I think people more are turning up to vote Reform.

More people are voting in local by-elections. This only helps Reform
New voters are overthrowing the old political order

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/polling/2025/10/more-people-are-voting-in-local-by-elections-this-only-helps-reform

David Lammy and his outrageous plan to ensure Jury Trial only available for 'crimes' that carry over three years. Of course this would be great because just jail 'Dissidents' for 2.5 years then with the use of friendly Socialist Judges. Funny that they don't like a lack of scrutiny and transparency when it involves one of their own isn't . Oh hang on British Justice is so much better than Bangladesh, that will just go and arrest people for 'wrong' speak or crimes against DEI.

Yes YouGov is always more favourable to Labour and less so to Reform.

That article was written before the Caerphilly by-election, which changes the picture a little. Turnout there was up over 6%, but that was no help to Reform.

I wouldn’t go by one by election in Wales. It’s not the same set up elsewhere.