AIBU to not want my and day spoiled by naughty nephew?

[Jollyvibes]

Hey,

I know I’m probably being a diva so please be blunt with me!

we have ended up hosting some of dh’s family for Christmas dinner this year. No issue with that, however this includes dh’s sister, her DH and their ds 5- our nephew.

nephews behaviour is appalling - rude, defiant, screams, hits and generally creates absolute chaos everywhere he goes. His parents are big part of the problem imo as they are way too tolerant and well on egg shells around him, however I guess that’s their business.

So… I’m a bit pissed off that my Christmas Day was an almost certainly going to involve some of his behaviour, I enjoy Christmas and really need the break this year. Aibu to not want to have to put up with this on Xmas day

I always say unless you live with a child you don’t know how much the parents do or don’t parent him, he might get more naughty at family occasions where everyone is wound up and things are at another level in terms of excitement and they don’t want to make a scene/ are just wound up/ exhausted plus 5 can be hell age!!! Saying that do you want to host? Because it’s a month away now, there’s still time to change plans!

I would ask DH to have four things in place.

• Have some snacks and water prepared early so that any hungry children could nibble before getting Hangry. Homus and vegies, fruit, sausage rolls.
• Have a quiet space ready away from main festivities which he will show to his DS and BIL for when they need to remove an upset nephew until he calms down. Lego, books, fruit, water, bathroom nearby.
• Outdoor activities planned including a long walk around the block with nephew after lunch and a strenuous game of cricket in the park for all men.
• DH will be alert to ask DN to help him out with tasks whenever it is appropriate. Carrying ice, spiking BBQ sausages, bringing a beer etc..

It could be that DN has improved.

Suggest DS parks her car handy so that she or her husband are the ones to nip out (with nephew) to buy ice or sit with DN watching a film in the car while they are packing up.

Make sure he gets outside to burn off some energy.

Agree with all of this.
Basically Dh should be put incharge of keeping DN occupied and happy and know what to do if things become a bit frazzled.

Yabu, he's family, and can't be removed from guest list. You'll just have to embrace the chaos.

And for the same reason we don’t do Christmas at ours. SIL got two children like this, they got some issues but still it’s absolute chaos. Our cats always get antagonised 🙄🙄 it’s just not fun for everyone involved so we go to hers - contained chaos in their own home. But then again they got dog which bit me once.. so not massive fan going there either 😬😅but choosing the lesser evil… I feel
for you op, but what can we do… can’t invite them without children (purely impractical on the first place) and can’t not go there. I mean we could not go but my husband doesn’t agree with me and thinks I’m jus being mean and what to upset everyone 🤣🤣

To the "We don't do do that in this house" I would add "now are you going to behave or shall I get your mum and dad to take you home?".

If they don't intervene and his behaviour is unacceptable then I would pull him up on it myself. It's your house after all.

Just to give a perspective on this from someone with a DS who sometimes gets dubbed as "naughty" (he has ADHD and ASD).

I have hated taking him to visit the ILs - it's difficult-to-impossible for him to meet their behaviour expectations and upsetting for me when he gets told off by them for stuff he really struggles with.

Being told "no! do not do that, that's naughty!" repeatedly for minor things is really hard for him (he's extremely sensitive) and I feel like I'm failing (when I know how to parent him). I've had to lock myself in the bathroom for a few minutes to have a cry.

Things have got better since he got his diagnoses and they're making an effort now to understand his needs and that he's never going to be the kind of kid who is going to sit very quietly at a dinner table for an hour with perfect table manners.

There is going to be a lot of compromise on your part here. You need to anticipate and accept that it is not going to be the easiest visit. By anticipating it you can plan ahead to do things like remove breakables, have snacks and distractions around and all the other brilliant advice you’ve been given.

Make it abundantly clear ahead of time that there will be ground rules, and what those ground rules are. To the parents you won’t need to mince your words but be age appropriate with the child. Do this before the day then gentle reminders on the day. “Remember what we said little Tommy- in this house we do this but if you want to run around, you’ll need mummy and daddy to take you outside to do it” and stick to it.

You might feel that his issues are down to parenting, or lack of it but you don’t know that there isn’t something else lurking underneath. We all thought my nephew was just “naughty” but we know differently now and have plans in place to minimise his actions. Most importantly, even though you may not feel like it, make him feel welcome in your home. Screen time might well be your friend here! Use it to reward him for good behaviour and take it off him for bad.

Did you actually invite them or was it assumed that they were included?

Things have got better since he got his diagnoses and they're making an effort now to understand his needs and that he's never going to be the kind of kid who is going to sit very quietly at a dinner table for an hour with perfect table manners.

that is missing the point. The point is as soon as DN starts to be disruptive his parents don't spring into action to distract, calm or remove. They just stand there ignoring it.

Under those circs, i would say once to DS and BIL that this is not acceptable. 2nd time i would remove child myself and tell one of them to occupy him until he can return and 3rd time i would ask them to leave.

I agree with this.

As parent of a ‘nightmare’ child myself (mine is very autistic and comes out as a lot of antisocial behaviours especially in group settings)

Firstly OP don’t assume they don’t know he’s a monster. They probably do. We did but didn’t know how to verbalise this in front of family members who would gush about their own DCs being fabulous.

We found when we went to people’s houses (rarely!) them helping putting a plan in place to manage and support behaviour was actually really helpful. People saying ‘we noticed sometimes x finds it hard to sit at the table, shall we arrange a separate space’.

^^ this is assuming there is no escape for you and you must be with them.

My son is nearly 10 now and I’d say the amount of times we’ve brought him to other people’s houses is single digits. We always host as easier to manage his behaviour at home. Your in laws should do same. So YANBU to be annoyed. Some kids are harder to parent than others but its up to the parents to make sure those kids don’t spoil things for others.

Also some parents really are just clueless and some kids are just brats. I definitely have friends who fall into this category!

I think I wrote this exact post a couple of years ago. I 100% feel your pain.

To address soe other comemnts - he may well be ND. The problem is that ND children need very active and engaged parents, often using strategies and techniques that are NOT required for NT children, and too often, parents simply don't do this. x100 during the early period when they're refusing to even consider there might be ND at play.

A few things in our house we have done to manage DN:

1 Absolutely to the "we don't do xxx in this house." I have had to deploy that for eevrything from screaming at the table, to hitting his mother and grandmother.

2 If he IS ND, the truth is that an event like this will make his behaviour worse. What can you do to minimise the impact on him. A snack/game section in a quieter part of the house can work well.

3 We stopped insisting DN sit at the table and that pressure helped - he is starting to come back to sit at the table at my house (not at his own house I note, but that's a separate conversation), but I think it's because he feels less pressure. Also, by not having him at the table, him screaming and shouting was minimised. I implemented this option after the Christmas I found myself next to him and as a result I didn't get to speak to a single other person for the entire meal as no one on our side of the table could hear a thing. Also...

4 The chaos of food prepration for children like this is quite overwhelming. It's Christmas, so you might not be able to minimise this, but keep it in mind for future events. I have started making a real point of only serving meals that can be completely prepared in advance when they come over. I think the running in and out of the kitchen, lots of dishes on the table etc just completely stresses him out.

5 Plan your gift for him carefully. Ideally something he can play with at your house and that will keep him occupied. This can be difficult to identify. DN is a bit older now so last year we paid for a game he wanted on his ipad....

6 Give him some attention as soon ashe comes through the door. DH is great at this - he'll make a point of engaging with him, checking what he's up to, asking about his new toys etc. It sort of takes off some of the pressure. Having said that, don't force it as if he's used to getting his own way and he doesn't want to hang out with you, he'll kick off early.

Good luck. I feel your pain. we're not doign Christmas with them this year so I have a very clear plan for our Christmas meal with them ito how I'm going to set it up, food I'm going to serve etc. It's a pain having to put that much thought into it, but it's worth it for me not to feel constantly stressed out when they arrive and irritated not just with DN, but with his parent/s too.

I always roll my eyes at this. My DH always cooks for guests and shock horror this includes my family. Can you imagine the uproar on here if I posted ‘DH always cooks for his family but refuses to do it for mine’ … if you have guests, just work out between you as a couple how to make them feel welcome 🙄

All OP has said is that the parents are "too tolerant" and "seem to walk on eggshells" - I'm sure that my IL's might have been privately thinking the same about my parenting as they would more directly admonish DS for things I would either ignore or respond to more gently.

Obviously I don't know what the DN's parents are like, maybe it is just crap parenting in this case?

In our case I think there's a mix of different expectations both in terms of standards of behaviour (IL's are very 'no elbows on the table', we are - frankly by necessity dealing with two ND children - rather more relaxed) and in terms of how you respond to it (I know raising my voice would make matters worse).

Regardless - I think you have to tread v carefully with reprimanding someone else's child while they're present. I think the main scenarios are:

• challenging child that parents know how to handle = you are making matters worse
• parents are trying but don't know how to handle = you make them feel like shit
• parents are lazy = they will let you be 'bad cop' and do the parenting while they ignore

I think there's some good advice here about thinking about how you structure the day around the DN (time outside, movies etc). Maybe actually talk to the ILs about what's going to work best for him rather than guess?

When it comes to actually setting rules and reprimanding:

• A few ground rules are good (e.g. certain places in house are out of bounds, certain things are not for touching, sofa is not for jumping on) but otherwise I'd be wary of over using the "we don't do things like that in this house" - it just sounds superior ("we have higher standards than you")
• Pick your battles - you're not going to get a challenging child to miraculously behave impeccably, don't even try. Accept it will be imperfect
• PLEASE don't say something like "now are you going to behave or shall I get your mum and dad to take you home?" as previously suggested! Are you actually going to follow through on that threat?
• Work with the parents rather than do their job for them "I can see DN's getting a bit overwhelmed, what's going to help?".

Maybe I'm just battle-scarred from my own experience but you can do long-term damage to family relationships with this stuff, people understandably can get defensive and protective if they feel their parenting is being challenged.

Regardless - I think you have to tread v carefully with reprimanding someone else's child while they're present

haha. No.

Child misbehaves in my house: their parents get a very short window to address it and make it stop. Then i will step in with "we don't do that in this house" and then to the parents "take [child] home please"

If you've got no particular interest in maintaining a relationship with them, then no one is stopping you.

Wow...I have a sister who lacks tolerance for other people's children's behaviour, she sounds similar to you, apart from my 3 other siblings and I wouldn't have our Christmas day ruined by an adult sounding like a child and so she's no longer invited..

If you don't want to have your day ruined by an excitable child maybe displaying age related behaviour for a 4 year old, or an acceptable behaviour for the parents or dysregulation caused by environment or change of routine then your best bet is to be prepared.

Ignoring a child in an adult environment is never going to end well, negative attention is better than being ignored....engage and entertain a child before the unwanted behaviour is easier than stopping it...
I'm presuming the behaviour isn't ASD related if it is double WOW

Happy Christmas 🎄

Even the best behaved children can turn things chaotic on Christmas Day. Some of the responses here are things that I would implement on an ongoing basis but Christmas Day is not the day I would be looking to challenge what sounds like ongoing behaviour - for the day itself have plenty of distractions, some simple games planned and don’t expect angelic behaviour. There are some good ideas on the thread already. Get your husband onside to deal with any tricky situations or meltdowns. If it is definitely going ahead then overthinking and stressing in advance is going to make you even more tightly wound up - plan a lovely relaxing day on Boxing Day and hopefully Christmas will be enjoyable with your DH’s family.

@crinklechips I completely understand where you're coming from based on your experience but I think your own experience is hugely colouring your view. And I speak as someone who is pre-disposed to be understanding and sympathetic of our DN because we have been through a lot of it already as we also have a child with ADHD and it has involved all of the judgement that you are referring to (including, ironically, from SIL when he was younger...)

But, I think that what OP is describing IS different. And as a SEN parent myself, with the inevitable fact that I know lots of other SEN families too, I've seen so many variations of parenting of ND children. So the below comment from you is interesting to me:

A few ground rules are good (e.g. certain places in house are out of bounds, certain things are not for touching, sofa is not for jumping on) but otherwise I'd be wary of over using the "we don't do things like that in this house" - it just sounds superior ("we have higher standards than you")

That is absolutely something that we would expect and that my ADHD child, and many of the other SEN children that visit our home or we visit theirs can and do respect. BUT.... that's not true for SIL and DN. Why? Becuase she doesn't think this is fair. She refuses to see that he will destroy things. and if he is unhappy because he's not allowed in my bedroom, she is unhappy. Then, when he does break something, she starts by shouting at him (completely unproductive, as you know), then 10 seconds later, she switches to defending him and teling everyone else that it' snot his fault, it was a mistake etc etc etc. And nothing ever changes.

After too many incidents, it was me who had to lay down the ground rules, and be very very clear with him because she wouldn't repsect my boundaries, so how would I expect him to? And overall, his behaviour in my house is a lot better than in his own.

And from what OP is writing, I think she's got a in laws like mine, rather than like you.

This. Come on, it's just not realistic to think asking them to take him home on Christmas Day would be an option! That would make OP into the Scrooge of the family forever and wouldn't be forgotten. It's also the day when people are most likely to defend a child's behaviour with 'It's Christmas, they're overexcited', not without reason.

But there's been some good advice here. Think ahead and set up distractions. Ideally some quiet ones like a room where he could sprawl on cushions and watch TV, and some more energetic ones like your DH saying 'let's go outside for some Christmas football!' Definitely don't insist on sitting at the table for ages or waiting for food. Have something he can eat at any time handy.

I think this is a good time to use the old passive aggressive “talk to other people through the child” technique.

“Ooh no Damien, we don’t pull the cats tail otherwise MUMMY OR DADDY will have to take you in the other room to calm down/take you home/lock you in the cellar for an hour WON’T YOU MUMMY/DADDY?!”

And glare at them expectantly.

Sorry to say this but you are stuck with him. If you speak up now they will make alternative arrangements and most likely you and DH will be on your own.

Disciplining your child in someone else's house is very difficult, firstly your child may behave in a way completely different to normal so you don't always know what to expect. Secondly the rules are different and people dont always realise. A kid may always do a particular thing at home so they might not realise its not ok. Also, people often wind the child up even when asked not to, like giving them sugary things that they are sensitive to, engaging in horseplay that makes them high or putting on a TV show that overstimulates them. Then when the inevitable consequence happens they sit in silence and watch the parent try to intervene and discipline the child even if the parent hasn't been involved up to that point. I'm talking from experience here as a parent. I remember turning to ILs and saying 'could anyone help me out here' as I was publicly berating DS while they sat there smiling indulgently at him after provoking him to behave a particular way. But they would just ignore me again, then do exactly the same thing again. He would have big meltdowns if triggered enough so there were times especially when travel was involved that we were on eggshells, because again i had experienced meltdowns at other people's houses when they would really mishandle the situation and make everything worse.

I think you need to work with the parents here, ask in advance what is needed in terms of food, toys etc. Tell them if there are specific rules. If the child is acting up ask if there is anything you can do to help. They might be dealing with this difficult behaviour 24/7 and really need a bit of moral support or maybe they are not sure what to do if it's new territory. Adults should be a team when it comes to dealing with kids and work together not always blaming and finger pointing.