Richard Tice comments re autism and ear defenders

[Overthemhills]

I’m so tired of the anti-disability rhetoric everywhere on various sites and from various politicians. This one - Tice calling the sight of children wearing ear defenders in school “insane” is about the most stupid and cruel barrel-scraping comments a politician has come out with for a very long time.
My child is disabled but undiagnosed and does not use ear defenders so I have little on the way of skin in the game, or this particular game, but just how low do some people want to go to make the lives of people struggling with disability worse - on top of the cost of living and NHS issues.
I’m starting to think I will need to avoid every news item and social media platform until the next general election at this rate.

In my (lovely, progressive) workplace we are all encouraged to share a "guide to working with me" which is an opportunity for people to say things like whether they prefer to communicate over email, meet face to face, need time to reflect on decisions, like busy environments or quiet etc. Obviously it's hard to meet everyone's preferences all the time but it's really helpful for getting the best out of people. For example I know one of my colleagues really isn't a morning person so I'll never put in an early meeting with her if I can help it as I know we'll have a much more productive chat later in the day.

Some of us are neurodivergent and it's not a big deal, it's just part of recognising all of our differences. Some people have health conditions, caring responsibilities etc that effect where when and how we work. It's all just part and parcel of recognising our differences and creating a happy and productive workplace.

I agree too but the diagnosis is needed for accommodations in exams, which is fair, and it is the same for all disabilities. You do need to prove there is a disability there to secure accommodations for exams so whether it is dyslexia with spelling and grammar waivers, extra time or autism with accommodations of smaller centres and movement breaks the diagnosis is needed to secure these.

The need has always been there as I was a child in the 80s and significantly impacted by noise. I didn't get the support because it wasn't there and parents didn't know anything about ND.

Also, technology has advanced; We now have solutions to issues (big and small) that were present at the time but may not have been visible until they were (Your phone, hearing aids, washing machine, glasses, microwave, cars, tv, bed, heaters, etc to name a few).

Comments like Tice's appeal to people who are unable to imagine that raising different children may come with different challenges and outcomes to raising their own.

I've had a few cracking comments about my ND child, the issues she has and the fairly small accommodations we make so that life runs more smoothly. Apparently if she had been raised by her Brownie leader she'd eat everything offered and my mum would have told her to pay more attention at school, so she now wouldn't have ADHD.

There is a sad but beautiful irony that it is the people who struggle to put themselves in others shoes who are against ND children having adaptations to improve their experiences and outcomes.

It's probably important to remember Dickhead Tice's expertise are in property development.

Not healthcare, or neurodivergence, so everything he says about autism or reasonable adjustments is coming from someone who has no real experience of this. He can take his words and shove them back up his tight arsehole.

A lot of those people would be receiving long term mental health care now because their needs were never understood and their mind eventually broke.

Yep! That's me.

Same as people when they say ARFID never existed. It did, just not by the name. If it never affected you or you didn't have anyone in your family who struggled with severe restrictive eating and limited diet, you may not understand. I did and still do. Also have people in my family who did and still do. It's only now making sense what it is. We just got on with it and lived a very restrictive life in that regard.

It's a really awful thing for him to have said and I agree with you about the impact on stigma. But I tend to think that people like Tice just spout off without any thought. They'll say stuff in a media interview like they're a man in a pub, with no consideration of the responsibility they have to consider their words. They're just not serious people.

But that's one of the things I worry about - we increasingly seem to be at the mercy of people who just aren't serious. Totally clueless. Seeing this in Reform-led councils all over the place, they haven't got the first idea how to govern. But being profoundly unserious hasn't stopped Trump so...

That's like saying so many blind people use tactile pavements these days to help them cross the road safely, you're not saying they're not needed, but they definitely weren't needed before 1965 so something has changed.

You're right, the world has changed significantly, but there's absolutely no going back to how it was. The need was still there, and the innovation behind these tools was developed because that need existed.

Oh yes that irony strikes me all the time! If more people were as considerate and empathetic as my AuDHD DS the world would be a better place!

Exactly this. People would do well to remember this, when they are showing support for the Reform Party. They are not only racist, but ablelist too. God help these groups of people, if they ever get into power.

But tax makes the country run. It might be unpalatable in a way, but it’s true. Unless you’re willing to work for free you can’t criticise others for wanting to be paid.

It's not from one extreme to the other. There are those of us in our 40s who were non verbal as kids and have since become semi verbal/selective mutism (Some are completely verbal too). We struggle with verbal speech, self care, hygiene, food, etc but can use the bathroom and toilet independently.

Some of us are awfully isolated due to constant overstimulation and dysregulation when in regular contact with the outside world. Also struggle with differences in communication, interaction often due to extremely restricted interests and mixed signal communication from the general public where people don't often say what they mean or mean what they say.

Online is where you'll see most of us; we can dip in and out as we can cope with, and can take enough time to write, edit and sift what we want to say rather than the on-demand style of irl interactions where words are difficult to form constantly.

Some of us have such high potential because we are very intelligent and have been told this since childhood but it's not easy to navigate the world and other humans. We "fail" at school, work and socialisation because of overstimulation as well as constantly either feeling like aliens among other people or being made to feel that way inadvertently by them. Some of us are struggling because we're trapped inside our bodies and wish we could move around the world easily and as expected but such is life.

You'd see me and not know any of these things until we start having a conversation (if we do and if i happen to be able to speak/say more than the cursory hello and smile) or you spend a day with me. Then you'd start thinking that something is off but won't be able to put your finger on it till you're told.

To stop the odd looks and confusing stares I get 99% of the time irl because of this, I let people know right off the bat that I'm autistic or I wear my lanyard. It helps them make sense of me and whatever they may have picked up on as odd, weird or annoying. I find that most people are more patient and understanding irl when I do this. I've seen some disapproving looks too but what can you do?!

The problem with this is that without being formally recognised, many people will invalidate your struggle. You'll get called "precious", "hardwork", etc when you say you struggle with such and such or can't handle this or that. You're told to try and that you can push yourself. You decide to do just that to pacify people around you and make them less uncomfortable with you but end up with significant mental health challenges because you pushed yourself past what your brain and nervous system can handle.

When you've lived your life being invalidated, unsupported, unrecognised and dismissed as too sensitive, too this, too that, you of course feel the need to seek diagnosis even as an adult by yourself for something you know you've struggled with your whole life but managed to not let it affect others as much due to masking and self isolation.

Not recognising, acknowledging and accepting adult struggles unless formally diagnosed is what's dehumanising and silencing for some of us.

Reducing support and accomodations for SN kids will not reduce the tax burden. It is a false economy. You would simply push issues further down the line. Supporting kids to get the best outcomes they possibly can whilst at school (and in a suitable enviroment) is an investment in their future and that of the nation.

It won’t stop there either, they have gone after asylum seekers, now this. They will be forcing as many disabled people as possible in to work, regardless of their ability to do so, which is partly why Reform want to remove all DEI and workers rights, slash welfare and leave the ECHR. Disabled people will have not a leg to stand on (no pun intended) in either work or education.

Then after that, they will go after gay rights and marriage, then it will be someone else. They always need a scapegoat. It’s depressing.

I don’t know which is worse, either that so many people don’t see what’s happening, or don’t care.

It’s not reform, it’s regression.

What i dont understand is how the whole party can be behind something like SEND cuts when SEND affects everyone, irrespective of class, race or nationality. I don't really know who this guy is, but the chances of him having a child, nephew, niece or even sibling with SEND is very high. The cuts affect everyone, regardless of class/wealth because the less you get from the system, the more you may feel compelled to "top up" from the private system.

Well yeah, Reform are massively ableist.

In other news, the earth is round..

But we can’t keep going with 5 million on disability benefits. We just can’t. This is treated as an emotional rather than a financial matter on here when it isn’t.

Because it isn’t a binary choice between hating people with SEN, or wanting us to throw the kitchen sink at it with no financial limit and just keep going as we are.

I’m in the middle. I absolutely do not want SEN support scrapped, but I think we are spending increasingly excessive amounts on SEN with no change in outcomes and a system still in ‘crisis’.

We need to reduce the amount spent and spend it in a way that actually meets people’s needs.

@Portlypig of course it's an emotional matter. You are talking about my child. My vulnerable child. It is also a financial matter, of course it is. I am very happy to pay tax to pay for properly funded services that are well run. I get that many people don't want to contribute in that way, and are happy to let people fend for themselves or survive off any charitable services they can access. That's a political choice.

Well wearing ear defenders is going to increase the chance of succes in education and then work.

So they might have to decide if they can cope with seeing ear defenders or want less educated people and more homeless people (as they dont like benefits)

They’re such fucking idiots.

It makes absolutely no difference to anyone, at all. It doesn’t affect schools, they don’t stop kids hearing the teachers. They’re a bunch of cunts

A woman in a playground, who I promise we’d never encountered before in our lives, once told us that our son would be less autistic if we’d given him raw carrots.

Just out of nowhere “have you tried vegetables?”

If five million people (not even sure this figure is accurate?) are entitled to disability benefits, then yes we can go on. In a civilised society, we should not be punishing and scapegoating those with disabilities.

Those who are making you believe there are fraudulent claims left, right and centre don’t have the first idea about anything and shouldn’t be making political decisions or having discussions about things they are clueless about.

Not everyone with disabilities claims PIP, which has nothing to do with work anyway.

And a great point a pp just made - not giving disabled people adequate support through education isn’t going to bode well for them transitioning into work. The general public are woefully short sighted on these issues.