Richard Tice comments re autism and ear defenders

[Overthemhills]

I’m so tired of the anti-disability rhetoric everywhere on various sites and from various politicians. This one - Tice calling the sight of children wearing ear defenders in school “insane” is about the most stupid and cruel barrel-scraping comments a politician has come out with for a very long time.
My child is disabled but undiagnosed and does not use ear defenders so I have little on the way of skin in the game, or this particular game, but just how low do some people want to go to make the lives of people struggling with disability worse - on top of the cost of living and NHS issues.
I’m starting to think I will need to avoid every news item and social media platform until the next general election at this rate.

@SilenceInside kids, often took the piss out of the remedial classes. It's awful how chldren were segregated and treated as if they were just naughty or stupid.

@menopausalfart I think people would vote for removing children with SEN to institutions and out of mainstream schools entirely. A lot of people seem to really object to having children with SEN around their children without SEN, and seem to prefer the idea that they should just be removed from that setting.

It’s a really anxiety inducing thought tbh.

When I was a kid in the 60's & 70's, children with learning difficulties and behavioural issues did not have a regular education, they were sent to 'special school' so we never came into contact with them in the classroom at all. There was also a real stigma surrounding 'ESN' (educationally sub normal) as it was called then. Different times, and not good at all, looking at it from today's perspective.

@SilenceInside We're going backwards. It's frightening how people forget just what those institutions were like. Out of sight, out of mind worked I suppose as people just have no memory of it happening.

Well whatever we’ve got going now seems unpopular too. I wonder if there is an answer really. It’s not ableist to worry about the impact on society of (for example) 10% of adults needing carers and how to manage that.

@SilenceInside
I agree that they would. And possibly will vote that way.
Terrifying.
The “I’m alright Jacks” and the “didn’t happen in my days” will potentially be revelling in someone like this “man” who “says it like it is”.
I wonder what Tice would do if he had a disabled grandchild or child (presuming that could yet happen to him, as it were).

@PortlypigI believe that the kids who needed ear defenders were either bullied and sat in with the teachers at break, went to schools for “learning disabilities and challenging behaviour” and then pushed into day centres/institutions or most commonly, struggled hugely and had reputations as naughty kids who found themselves frequently suspended, labelled a troublemakers and are now in supported living after a stretch in prisons, secure units or living on the streets due to addiction.
Ive seen it a lot with families, let’s say I work with a young boy named James who has adhd/autism and mild leaning disability. James is helped now because we understand he needs ear defenders or something else to aid him and let him focus. James has an uncle Steven, Steven presented very similarly to James back in 1995 but had no aids to help him, so he was fidgety and cross and would be ridiculed, get into fights and bunk off school. Steven then found himself in the wrong crowd. Because Steven wasn’t able to sleep because his body lacked melatonin, Steven began smoking weed with the crowd he fell into. Because it helped Steven wind down and sleep, it did become a gateway drug. Now Steven is undiagnosed, it’s the 90s, he has gone throughout school misunderstood and is now an active drug addict. Steven is likely to end up in prison or dead.
The world is full of Steven’s. Especially in lower socially economic areas where it was much easier to label Steven a pest than it was to realise he was in need of additional help.
James is now diagnosed because as society, parents/teachers/TAs we know more about ND and hopefully James has a much brighter future ahead, by using things to help him regulate and cope that isn't drugs or getting into fights.

It’s always been there, it’s just we know what to look for now. My mother and I many years ago visited a seaside town and she recognised a homeless man from school. She said he used to be called a dunce was horrifically bullied. He was sat begging and clearly stimming. She said he’d done his stim even back then. It was quite an obvious stim and the man was both clearly had an intellectual disability but was also an alcoholic. Let’s just hope we can prevent more undiagnosed children becoming such a societal failure now we have the knowledge to deal with it head on.

Regardless of one's feelings about Richard Tice, I do have a fundamental problem with a school system that so many children need adaptations to deal with, but which still places the "blame" on the individual students who need help.

It's like, default is this rowdy classroom with 30 kids being loud and crammed into one room. You're having issues with this? You must have SEN. Here, have these ear defenders - they might cause you issues with auditory and language processing down the line but whatever at least you don't have to hear all the shouting quite so loudly. NEXT!

So frustrated by his comments. My (NT) DGD and DGS both found the noise of the dinner hall overwhelming when they first started Reception and wore ear defenders during lunch time for the first few weeks of term. They don’t have any additional needs, but this small adjustment made all the difference to their first experience of school. If something has a positive impact, irrespective of diagnoses, why make an issue of it?

Nothing as severe as James

my DF now sadly gone ,undiagnosed dyslexic , struggled to read, called stupud at school and caned daily due to inability to read. Left school at 14 and worked manual labour all his life - I was a free school meals kid.

my DS ,severely dyslexic, picked up by school in year 2, interventions and support right though school & Uni. 1st class degree ,graduate engineering job and at 25 earning a significant salary & paying a lot of tax!

Interventions work !

All those children, who fell through the cracks, now have a chance at a decent, productive life.

My brother is autistic and went to school in the 90s. There was no extra support for him to help him with his sensory needs and he could have really done with it. Autism just wasn’t understood like it is now and I’m so glad that children are getting reasonable adjustments to help them now as that wasn’t the case for him.

I hope so but all I ever read is that outcomes are actually worse now than 30 years ago, SEN in crisis etc

Can I ask where you read this, @Portlypig
There is a crisis in the SEN community about being able to access the correct support. The last thing we need to do is go back to the way things were, though.

According to my mother I hated noise when I was a child in the 90s, hated stuff like loud clapping or singing in assembly for example. I'd have loved ear defenders. I always did very well in school apart from that.

DS who is 4 sometimes asks for them in new and noisy situations. No diagnosis at the moment although he had glue ear as a baby which is very common. I probably teach 2 or 3.kids per class who sometimes need them, again it's not always ASD. Sometimes it's just they are sensitive to noise. Adults often wear loop earplugs. The world is very noisy now compared to the past.

It's such a small adjustment and makes no difference to other children. Richard Tice is a disgusting bully.

However, it is ableist to worry about ear defenders in classrooms when they do not affect the ability of other children to learn, and actually improve educational outcomes of children with sensory needs...

Sometimes people say the way things were was better, quieter classrooms, less stimuli etc

I'm sure there are some people that think that way. But actually I think what a lot of people object to is the number of SEN kids without adequate support in mainstream.

This is how I feel. I'd love it if all children could have the support they need to access mainstream if that's the right setting for them. Be that ear defenders, a one to one, whatever..

But what is happening now is that there are increasing numbers of children needing support, but the schools have no funding. So those children are inadequately supported and disruptive. In turn the teachers don't have time to support the kids who are quietly struggling but not disruptive because they're just trying to keep everyone safe. It's a mess and is a disservice to all kids.

@Overthemhills you better start not ever watching the news. Reform are currently favourite to win the next election.

so Tice might well be deputy PM.

I was on a train today chatting to another mum about our dc with SEN. A man was looking at us with open hostility. I think he wanted me to know he thought I was talking crap. I fear these comments embolden people with the views he no doubt has.

I’ve worked in schools since 2008 and I have never met a single teacher who minds ear defenders!

How do you know the need wasn’t there?

@Flibbertyfloo It is an absolute mess for all concerned. Instead of going backwards, though, we should try and fix the system for all concerned.

Classrooms are much louder than they were when I went to school. Smaller classes, less interaction in the lessons (it’s expected now), fewer behavioural issues, smart boards playing video clips etc.
He should spend some time in an actual school.

I think some of this is true BUT why pick on children with ear defenders? If children have ear defenders or a movement break etc it's often a reasonable adjustment that's been made and is working. There is a huge range of SEN and lots of children can manage well in mainstream.

I've had kids where we can't meet their needs and that's really hard for everyone but they aren't the kids just quietly getting on, wearing ear defenders. It's so ignorant and shows such little understanding from Tice.