Richard Tice comments re autism and ear defenders

[Overthemhills]

I’m so tired of the anti-disability rhetoric everywhere on various sites and from various politicians. This one - Tice calling the sight of children wearing ear defenders in school “insane” is about the most stupid and cruel barrel-scraping comments a politician has come out with for a very long time.
My child is disabled but undiagnosed and does not use ear defenders so I have little on the way of skin in the game, or this particular game, but just how low do some people want to go to make the lives of people struggling with disability worse - on top of the cost of living and NHS issues.
I’m starting to think I will need to avoid every news item and social media platform until the next general election at this rate.

In fairness the wider purpose is to undermine support necessary for SN. So it wont be limited to attacking use of ear defenders. It will extend to 1-2-1, small group work, SLT support in schools, EHCPs etc.

I don't think this pp will be back, given her example has been a little bit shot down in flames.

It’s always those with autistic children who can hold down university degrees and hospitality jobs telling the rest of us how to force our children to manage.

“Well my daughter manages a waitressing job, so why can’t your child just cope too?!”

Because he smears his shit up the walls and tries to eat mud, Sandra. He’s not going to work in the local restaurant regardless of how much “just deal with your disability” we do.

Yes of course it is. I just particularly dislike the "debating" style whereby someone tries to move on from a specific point, not by countering it with a legitimate argument, but by saying "well it's not even about that anyway". The PP I was replying to is deflecting, not opening up the topic.

I think schools and society have changed hugely and it’s having an impact on our kids. I suspect many kids need ear defenders now because schools and society have changed but also because it’s a quick fix.

30 years ago, schools tended to have individual classrooms often with a shared area between classrooms which would be where any play things were kept. Children tended to have walked to school (and carried their own bags) thereby getting some sensory input on their way to school. The school day tended to be quite predictable, many schools would have assembly first thing or some classes would say the Lord’s Prayer every morning.
Kids all tended to do the same thing all at once and generally no talking was allowed when everyone was doing their work. For example, everyone would do maths and when you were finished you might all do some more fun activities before break.
Gym was much more vigorous, kids could climb ropes/ bars, jump over the box etc again getting that sensory input and most kids would have played out after school.

In contrast although my children actually have less kids in their class than I did, the school is open plan. It’s now all bright LED lights which flicker imperceptibly but also be very overwhelming. It is also all play based learning so children are milling around everywhere and the noise is overwhelming. Children can’t concentrate because everyone is doing different things and it’s more interesting to watch your friend play with the magnatiles than do your maths.
Most kids are driven to school and the ones who walk tend to have their bag carried by their parent. Their p.e. classes seem to consist of yoga or dodgeball so less sensory input generally and because of all the different components of the curriculum that have to be fitted into the day it can be very unpredictable.
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Still here :)

I’ve never said I don’t support the use of ear defenders in the right context. So I’m not sure what you think is being shot down in flames?

What I’m questioning (quite rationally) is whether we are overusing aids at the expense of children developing other coping mechanisms and pointing out that some psychologists support the view that while autism can’t be ‘cured’ it can be managed well - including with therapy. Dr Fisher is one.

I appreciate this is an emotive topic but I’ve tried to explain my views in a rational way.

I think this is absolutely spot on. I’d love to see the school environment adapted to help EVERYONE learn.

I think this is one of the points - when we talk about autistic children there is a huge spectrum. I think the children the original article is referring to aren’t the ones at the extreme end of that.

In this sense, ‘autism’ is an extremely unhelpful diagnosis.

But Dr Fisher doesn't support your contention, as evidenced by another poster. The evidence supplied explicitly supports the use of aids.

Its only an unhelpful diagnosis if your overriding aim is to pass off supports and accomodations as unnecessary.

Individual children will (should) have reports/assessments/EHCPs geared to their individual needs. Diagnosis and support doesn't end with the word autistic. Just like a diagnosis of anything else doesn't end with one word.

I am dyslexic. My dyslexia may present itself slightly differently from someone else with dyslexia. It may be more severe in particular circumstances. We may need different accomodations. But we both have dyslexia.

Richard Tice MP, spouted ignorant, damaging, stigmatising nonsense about autistic children. The man is anti-scientific and anti reality. But it's alright because you can read his mind(?) and you, personally see children wearing ear defenders as signalling to you rather than going about their learning.🤨

No one here has argued that children wear ear defenders in the wrong context.

Exactly. Diagnosis is the first step. It's the gateway to assessing what levels and kinds of support are needed for someone to function at school and achieve the best possible outcomes.

I repeat: it is naive, and to a degree beyond rational understanding, to think that Richard Tice and Reform say these things because they want to support young people with disabilities. I am automatically suspicious of anyone who thinks this is the case.

What's rational about making a claim, and name dropping a psychologist to back your claim who turns out actually to support the exact opposite viewpoint to the one you claim they support? Still waiting for the names of the multiple other psychologists who think the use of ear defenders is unhelpful, per your claim.

As others have pointed out - diagnosis isn’t the end point.

I think if a child’s specialists, education staff, care staff, and crucially parents all believe that child would be able to cope better with ear defenders, or any other adjustment - who’s asking Richard Tice, or anyone else for that matter?

Do you honestly believe that anyone gives a flying shit if Richard Tice believes their child needs accommodations, that their settings are happy and able to give them? Needs to mind his own IMO.

I take your argument that we should encourage children to develop coping strategies. What you’re missing is that things like ear defenders are a coping strategy, and often there’s a limit to how far you can push that comfort zone.

What no reasonable parent is doing is making their child more uncomfortable incase someone else thinks they could manage better.

What on earth are you talking about please.