Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

Just to add, some parents do choose to have a disabled child to a certain extent. They decide to proceed with the pregnancy knowing that the baby will be born disabled.

I don't know how people like this fit in your disability is never a choice but children always are a choice model?

I agree it should be assessed like child benefit, student loans etc on household income. All of these are potentially subject to financial abuse but these caps still exist so why not for pip? If household income is that high why is the taxpayer picking this up for the disabled group alone and not other groups? You could remove the cap for very severe disabilities that clearly cost a lot to support, but otherwise I believe there should be a cap.
I also think it's completely unfair that disabled people have access to extremely subsidised vehicles that the average working person can't afford. You don't need a Mercedes or a BMW for disability reasons, that's for prestige alone. If you want that then fine, you pay for it completely and not subsidised.

I’m from Malta and abortion was illegal there as it’s a Catholic country. My sister had no choice but to give birth to a downs child. If she had a choice she would have aborted the baby. She admits her life is screwed as the child will never marry and will remain a burden. They won’t be able to live a normal life or pursue a career they want etc etc

There has been multiple posts on this thread by people far more experienced than me to educate you that PIP isn’t there for the mobility scheme. This is an option people choose. You are aware that if these cars were taken off the scheme people would still receive the money they do?

Are you really proposing that someone who uses their full PIP allowance to pay for carers should get this money taken away from them if their household income is too much? What if a house hold income just hits the theshold you propose but they have to spend over a thousand pound a month on carers? Probably much more- carers are so expensive but I haven’t been unlucky enough to ever have to employ one.

People will become over stretched with partners potentially losing their jobs as they can’t juggle a job plus full time care. Pressure will be added to the NHS and social services.

These people aren’t given a choice.

This!!!
My husband would give it all back and go back to our knackered old 20 year old car if he could have the use of his legs back! Like I say to him, you got to have something good out of being crippled!

I don't know why you assume that I don't know how Motability works. I do. Factually some people are using the mobility element to part fund new luxury cars. This is what is happening.

I am arguing that PIP is means tested, not just that luxury cars aren't available through Motability.

Regarding your example, PIP wouldn't cover the cost of expensive carers working long hours anyway in the way you are describing. This would be done via the Local Authority, NHS or funded privately.

The maximum PIP award is just over £700 and yes, I do believe that a household with an income of £60k plus can probably cover the loss of this money in a way that a household on £20k couldn't.

Thanks for detailing the scheme Op.

I think the Mobility scheme throws up some interesting questions and the obvious one is what standard of living should the state provide.
Until this is answered there is going to be an issue with any scheme.

No one has an issue with the Mobility scheme providing assistance to people who have been met the criteria. However should that mean that the scheme includes luxury cars during a cost of living crisis.

What has surprised me is that the people I thought would benefit from the scheme or I definitely thought should benefit from this scheme (WAV users) still have to pay £6000 upfront. That absolutely shocks me.

And this makes me so angry because there is not enough enforcement in this area and to those stating there is no fraud, it is only because it take a lot of money that councils do not have right now to investigate cases.

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/drivers-blue-badge-misuse-croydon-parking-london

But people do use PIP this way! You only need to have a quick peep on any disability forum. LHA are absolute nightmares for getting any type of funding from. They drag their feet and put pressure on every other family member to take on responsibility. I’ve been there myself.

Their PIP is their own money… so yes? Privately funding?

They can use their PIP towards care, of course they can. But the poster was referring to the type of care that costs thousands per month. PIP would never cover this. A household with more than £60k in income should be able to pay for £700 or less in care a month. Parents often pay more than this in nursery fees each month and aren't entitled to CB if earning over the threshold. Of course it's crap and places a huge extra burden on the household, but it is a very different proposition than a household earning £30k trying to find this money

Because Motability is a charity that has deals for leases with car dealerships, not to buy the cars outright.

If a car is adapted, they can be leased for 5 years instead of 3 years.

To all the PIP haters and the "it's free" people

My DD would much rather not have had a bi-lateral stroke and spend weeks on life support in her 20's, missing months of her baby's life than spend the rest of her life reliant on benefits and have a mobility car. She would love to go out unaccompanied, but cannot. If she didn't have her car, the mobility element of PIP wouldn't cover the cost of taxis to her ongoing medical appointments.

Yes there are some people receiving higher rate and if you don't know the circumstances you would question why, but please lets stop being such a judgy nation.

How do they get their severely disabled child with breathing apparatus and spasticity in their limbs into the back seat of a hatchback? Open the driver door and chuck them over the headrest?

What about the adult who can't be in the front seat due to osteogenesis imperfecta in case the air bag is detonated? Or the person whose knee doesn't bend? Or the spine that can't cope with the drop down or lift up from a hatchback? Where do the crutches go when you can't have them rattling around loose in the front seat? Or the person whose disability includes a significant likelihood of grabbing the gearstick or wheel when disregulated? Or how do they deal with two people with disabilities at once - sorry, love, you'll have to stay at home whilst I take Jamie on holiday unless we tie you to the roof with some bungee straps?

Hello. I’ve silently lurked this thread but the scenario you mention is so similar to my own I have to comment.

We are a household of 5. Myself, DH and 3 DC. DH earns just over 60k. I am disabled.

I did everything right. Planned my children, worked hard and made a career (and was a high earner) and I’m still here unemployed and receiving PIP.

I was a higher earner than my DH at the time as he was on around 40k. All three of my children were planned and if I’d have known I was to become disabled I wouldn’t have had three, but I didn’t. I actually sustained my injuries during childbirth and following consequential surgeries mean I can barely walk, let alone work. I was to go back to work and DH was to take some time off as a SAHD to save on nursery fees. Luckily since I’ve been out of work he’s been able to gain promotion but his earning potential is completely maxed out, he won’t ever earn more than what he does now. We got lucky with that because his boss is a nice man.

We had a little put away but blew through it fast as DH had to take a long period off when I got sick. He brings home around £3800 a month and I get approx £741 PIP.

This pays for: all bills, full time nursery for our youngest as I cannot look after him myself when DH is at work. Wrap around childcare for our elder two as I cannot go and get them for school. A carer for me who comes out twice a day to help me out of bed and to see if I’ve fallen. This type of care often isn’t and won’t be funded by the LHA as they have a really tight criteria. We have been assessed and are not entitled to anything. Not even respite breaks for my children who have a disabled Mum. If we couldn’t afford the childcare he would have no choice but to quit and we would have to claim UC, costing the tax payer even more.

So yes, on paper you say people with a household income of 60k should be able to pay £700 a month on care but the reality is there are so many additional extras that have come as a consequence to me being disabled that we can barely keep our heads afloat. It will be a little better once the children are in high school and no nursery fees but our near future is bleak.

You say children don’t ask to be born but they definitely don’t ask to be born to a disabled parent. Your numbers don’t take into account the home situation of many people. Most disabled people are not single person households.

Also no use to a wheelchair user! Ridiculous idea!

The jealousy directed at disabled people by able bodied crabs in a bucket on threads like this Blows. My. Mind.

Are you really too stupid to see that it wasn’t disabled people who took your eyes out, it was the upper echelons of society who won’t be content until we’re scrabbling in the streets.

Definitely wasn’t my intention, I swear to god it wasn’t. I’m stunned

Exactly the same here

£6k is basic so manual ramp, manual rear door, manual wheelchair tie downs. Specific adaptations cost more. They don’t let you keep the vehicle past 7 years (that’s if the allow extension past 5 years) so you continuously have to find tens of thousands of pounds. Msindtream media miss this info out. You’re getting half a picture. The most disabled in society are extremely poor because existing costs so much.

Wasnt it? I bet I’m not the only carer who has had enough of justifying my child’s life to the point I wonder if it’s worth living at all because of threads like these.

You all lost me at no ventilators for disabled people during covid and it’s got worse and worse since. It’s non stop hatred.

You have to know when to step back. I am on a lot of these threads, either lurking as they call it, or giving my opinion. I see posters patiently explaining how their, or their child's disability affects them in life, only to be dismissed by those who have a problem with disabled people seemingly doing better out of life, than they are, because they get a few benefits. It is toxic. Posters should not be trying to justify anything to posters like that imo. I am not giving them anything to pick over. If it gets too much, just go and take a break, would be my advice.

Exactly right; the people on these threads don't care what your disability is or how it affects you - they just see someone else getting something they want and hate it, regardless of reason or necessity. They aren't worth engaging with.

Also wanted to say that I always appreciate and value your input on these threads.

Yes, it's all very 'I'm happy for these people to have less than me because they are less than me - how DARE they have something more than me?'.

The taxpayer is NOT paying for the difference, the disabled person is via the AP as I’ve stated multiple times! The better the car, the higher the AP!

Thank you, that is very kind of you.@DontGoJasonWaterfalls. I have learnt so much from those posters, willing to bare their difficulties, about living with different conditions. Some posters seem to forget that these are real people, and that their words could cause hurt.

Sadly, you could have this printed in the form of leaflets and posted through every door in the country as a sort of public information thing, and you will still get people going on about someone having a Lamborghini for acne.