Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

I have no issues with the PIP and/or Motability scheme in general, but for people on here to say it doesn't come from taxpayers' money - where do you think the funding comes from?! Of course it is the public purse. Including someone's own taxes if they work while on PIP.

Exactly. I can only write what the person says. Even if I suspect they are not telling the truth there is nothing I can do about it. It is then in the hands of the assessor, I just literally help fill out the forms and help people that struggle to articulate what they want to say to say it.

You’re not listening to anything people are actually saying.

This topic appears to be really triggering for you. You are taking personal offence to things that have absolutely nothing to do with you.

I would reiterate what I said earlier: have a day off.

But if you know they are blatantly lying why aren't you speaking up.

It has everything to do with me. If you ever become severely disabled you will understand

I find it so strange that people default to blame.

It's not a disabled person's fault if they are disabled. It's not a disabled persons fault if application of the process is unfair and unsustainable. It's not the disabled person's fault that successive governments have allowed the system to become so bloated and unequal that resentment and anger is rising. None of this is the disabled person's fault and nobody is suggesting otherwise.

It does however mean reform is necessary and this will undoubtedly mean that eligibility will be tightened and the money available will reduce for some disabled people. It's not a punishment for the disabled people that will lose out. It's just necessary changes that need to be made to make the system more sustainable and fairer for everyone including the tax payer and those that are just below threshold for recieving help.

Look. The perfect solution already existed.
Electric ✅
suitably distinctive to mark you out as a bit different, in need, benefit scrounger ✅
Not fancy ✅
guaranteed not to incur wrath of good honest British tax payers ✅

ahh the good old days

Again, you’re just making things up.

Who has stayed up all night posting on this thread? Literally no one!

Who here has said or implied that they hate anyone on benefits and don’t want to pay tax for them? Literally no one!

Honestly, give it a rest.

Nothing luxurious about that car. Just perfect!

Small point to add to the conversation. A brand new leased car almost always includes servicing, roadside assistance and tyre and windscreen repair. It won’t include insurance unless that car company is offering it. A lot of car companies are offering manufacturers deposits which can be put toward the advanced payment which is how a lot of people can have premium cars.

So this ‘helps’ for mobility customers to afford more expensive cars.

Not everything is about you.

Other people’s posts on this thread aren’t about you.

They need to scrap them. What's wrong with paper assessments?

That's what it appears to me when people say things such as well person B missed out on PIP when they may have actually got it because they didn't have help with forms but person A did have help with forms and gets PIP etc.

I do agree with you that the process is unfair and I also agree with pp that it is often inconsistent too. That is what I'd change.

Though my personal experience is DLA, not PIP.

I think that face to face assessments have their place, and can be useful,imo. I know that would not be suitable for all claimants obviously, but they can request another method of assessment.

I do not think that it is quite correct - many people know how to 'appear' to need the higher mobility rate to qualify for the Motability car. I work in this field and I give an example ' X is 31 and has MH and a Learning Disability'. He goes everywhere independently and able to do everything - manages his own money. He is overweight. He claims he cannot walk long distances, gets confused, disorientated etc etc. He gets a Motability car.. BUT he is always lugging chairs / big boxes of TVs Computers etc p 3 sets of stairs. He does NOT need a motalibility car, he can take public transport. What he definitely does NOT need is a new car every 3 years!! that is what is piss taking when I see my staff working all the hours under the sun and still not able to afford such luxury cars.

There are so many examples of abuse of this that I can give - cars being awarded to someone but the parents keeping the car at their place. Car being given and then the person using it and charging others for fares!

So are you reporting all these abuses, seeing as you have all this evidence, that these people are being dishonest?

Having worked at citizens advice doing benefits appeals and the benefits team for over ten years I have never seen anyone be offered a “luxury” range car with a grant.

You don’t get to choose what car you get if you are applying for a grant. They assess your needs and then offer you options. I have admittedly seen people push for these luxury cars, but have never seen anyone with a justifiable reason as to why they would need an Audi over what motability grants team have offered.

Many of motability drivers over the last two years do not get a grant anymore. Unfortunately the money just isn’t there. Unless you need a WAV you are not getting the money for a grant. I’ve seen people need a WAV and be turned away. The down payment for those types of cars can be over 10k as they often needs hoists and ramps installing and those people need to be prioritised.

I've had multiple assessments with supposed HCP. My condition only gets worse, it will never get better so why do I need umpteen assessments?

People with amputated legs have to be reassessed, that's just a waste of everyone's time.

Yes but apparently, it cannot be proven that he does not get disoriented or risk getting lost. He told them he needs the Satnav in the car not to get lost! The guy whose parents keep the car told the benefits office that they use it for him. We said that it is not exactly right as they use it to visit him and that is not using it FOR him. The funny thing is they charge him petrol if they have to take him anywhere. Nothing changes..it is so frustrating.
To be honest after having reported a few cases and nothing changes - we do not really bother anymore.

I was waiting for this response or the more popular, 'you have no idea about what this man is dealing with. You probably saw him on a good day lifting all that stuff etc etc'. Always the same. Looking to blame and shame anyone sharing their experience of how the welfare system is working because it doesn't align with the narrative that PIP is impossible to get unless you are genuine case.

Of course when the same posters share stories about themselves or their family members, we absolutely must take them at face value and show immense empathy. Nobody can dare question any element without being asked if they would like to swap places with a disabled person?

All of this is designed to stop people taking about their lived and professional experience of the system. Accusations of ableism are thrown around far too readily alongside personal insults. It reminds me of scandals we have had in this country where issues haven't been interrogated properly for fear of offending protected groups of people and being accused of some terrible ism.

That’s an entirely different situation. Why shouldn’t they? The kids certainly can’t do it!

He can claim attendance allowance though.

I wonder if a solution would be to only give mobility vehicles to people who need adaptations to be able to use them?
As I understand it PIP is there to help with extra costs. If you can use a normal car, I'm not sure where the extra costs are. I don't think using public transport (that may not be accessible) is really cheaper to commute to work. I have a small cheap car, I think it's cheaper for me to run that than it would be to use public transport round here (not that there is any).