Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

immyneutronsforehead · Today 23:29

is not the Rich who are the problem its how and where the Government spends the tax it gets from 'Rich' People that's the issue.

No Rich People no Tax Receipts and Third World Poverty for all which is where this Country is heading.

What luxuries are people claiming for?

No, it’s not small peanuts. About a quarter of UK government spending is on welfare.

The absolute amount spent on PIP has doubled in 5 years - and is expected to increase by a further 50% by 2028. It’s growing at an unsustainable rate because of the high growth in new claimants.

I don’t really see the point in denying that this is a challenge the UK faces at the moment (among many).

Happy to explain again but please do read my post properly. I don't have a motability car. I drive an ancient very not posh F reg vehicle which is what I can afford to run. I paid for it and it's adaptations and pay to keep it running from my wages. It is the additional disability related costs of it and my wheelchair that mobility allowance is for.

I responded to: do so many people need additional mobility funding?

with Born visibly disabled, developed additional disabilities over time.
Self employed (no one wants to give me a job) wheelchair, several physical disabilities, no motability vehicle.
Simply can't pay my own way without additional mobility funding as being this disabled is actually expensive.

Yes I need additional mobility funding to be able to work. I do not make enough to compete with the able bodied while paying premium rates that they don't have to. PIP mobility allowance is there .to help level that playing field

Others are exchanging all of that that same allowance for a motability vehicle.

That mobility payment has to help cover everything additional to do with my vehicle and wheelchair as a result of disability. My wages cover the basics, same as everyone else.
I work hard and long hours but cannot make enough money to run and insure a vehicle and still pay my rent, CT, food etc. My life and expenses are much more expensive simply because I'm disabled, and the mobility allowance is supposed to help towards closing the gap between me and you as workers.

Much of of what normal motorists have to pay for, is a premium charge for me because I'm disabled.
Additionally most can commute, park up for free, then take a bus or walk a bit for work, and don't have additional costs of frequent hospital trips and subsequent parking, just to remain viable for work.

A vehicle isn't just to get to and from work, it allows me to get to contractors and source and buy materials and deliver projects, and workshops, and helps with the constant fines I have to pay when unable to get to and move my vehicle in time, to a new spot every three hours while working.
I have to be able to park close, not because I'm lazy, but because I tear myself apart getting to and from the vehicle as well as in and out of it.

I don't get lunch breaks etc, because I must trade them for time spent moving the vehicle, and circling, praying for a new space to open up. It's exhausting and impacts my productivity, so i work extra hours unpaid to cover that.

The NHS can only operate on me so much to repair the damage. (during which time my mobility allowance is often stopped)

One of my work places parking restrictions and the requirement to move every three hours, starts at 9am and goes to 11pm, 6 days a week.
Just one parking ticket paid at reduced rate for swift payment, is more than my whole weekly mobility allowance, and I'm then working at a loss seeking extra hours at any pay rate to cover it.
My bosses (and actually hospitals) don't always give me carte blanche to go move when I need to, so I quite frequently get caught between them and revenue hungry councils.
Reasonable adjustment, is being allowed to trade my breaks for vehicle repositioning.

Where you might wear your shoes out and need them resoled, my working shoe leather is replacing wheelchair tires, wheels, bearings and brakes, every few months, (though for transparency, they are fitted for me for free unless in emergency, when I have to pay a minimum £160 plus parts, for a wheelchair technician call out) as well as compulsory theft and PL insurance on my wheelchair. It is prohibitively expensive for me to be mobile and competing with the able bodied for work opportunities, which is why I am awarded a mobility allowance to make working more possible.

On average I'm racking up extra disability related mobility costs of between £65 and £180 a week. Some weeks the allowance means I'm winning, some I'm losing heavily.
Mobility allowance is given to me, and I spread it back into the economy.
While most where furloughed during Covid, I was working (immuno compromised) providing services. The government was my indirect employer, (an approved contractor was creaming some of it) way fewer fines, less driving time, (clear roads) and I still didn't earn quite enough for it to be financially viable without mobility assistance.

Take mobility allowance away and I simply can't afford to work so would have to resort to UC just to continue surviving, and would be kissing independence goodbye.
I hope that helps you understand the life of some disabled mobility allowance recipients better, and also why people like me might rather roll our eyes (not at you) at some assertions and apparent envy around people like me,

And let me add to Meadowfinch, and then fuck off.

There are two sides to what?
Oh I see....people who have choices often say that. They say, 'fuck this ability to work whatever job I choose to aim for, and living well for a laugh, fuck the hobbies, socialising, leaving my home anytime or at all malarky. I'm going to be so disabled that I need PIP mobility benefits and possibly use them to access the motability scheme. I will have a car!!

Lots of people live a very limited life due to illness but don't qualify for a car. It's not a binary and the decisions aren't always consistent

And what's your point? Yes, It's based on an individual's situation and it's fucking hard to get PIP.

The Government could make £50 Billion Pounds in savings and not affect the Disabled if they had the desire to do so. it is the options they choose such as Overseas Aid putting Asylum Seekers in Hotels offering them up to £150 a week to move ou.t Stop the Net Zero Crap Stop ID Scheme Cancel the Chagos Isles not award stupid pay rises to their pay masters don't pay any 'benefits' to non Uk Citizens Encourage Wealthy People to Invest not drive them away with ideological Marxist Economics. The difference would enable disabled people to be protected .

Finally for Disabled people who do want to work create a Government Business similar to what Remploy used to be, where understandings and allowances for disabled people could be adapted.

Disabled people could work part time/ full time in an a workplace that would value their capabilities and achievements.

Do you know what, I am sick of this bullshit. It's really tough and then you're up against society too.

I was saying read things properly as you stated a motability car is £77 a month. It is not its £77 a week I have no clue what you are going on about

I’m surprised to read how hard it is to get tbh. My MIL has diabetes and fibromyalgia. She has a blue badge, PIP and a luxury car under the scheme. She also got a new bathroom paid for recently under a scheme. She walks perfectly fine and attends music festivals (on her feet for hours at a time), goes on long family walks, goes out boozing etc.

I assumed it must be quite easy to get if she has it!

The thing is, the government basically had two roles.

in other countries, you pay specifically for serious illness and disability insurance. Then if you are ill or seriously disabled the insurance pays out.

in the U.K., this sort of exists but isn’t really a thing.

so people who have worked all their lives and are under the impression that by paying national insurance (and the name does give that impression as well) that if they are disabled they’ll be able to benefit from the “insurance”.

same as state pension is only available if you have got enough national insurance credits, either through working or through home responsibilities protection etc.

so people who have become disabled and are relying on national “insurance” to help them out understandably object to being demonised.

in other countries where the “insurance” isn’t through the state nobody gives a shit that some disabled people have expensive cars.

OK, I'll give you my side. My next door neighbour has 6 kids. She often doesn't remember their names or ages... and doesn't drive, but gets award max mobility for two of her kids. They walk to school themselves.
Her friends park on our shared drive all the time, with mobility cars that I never see their kids in because they all walk to school/get school transport.
When I have asked me neighbour, she told me that it's great. You just say your kids refuse to walk, run onto the road, you have to carry them, and you get a car.
None of her friends work, or drive their kids to school.

Second family I know, drive a 7 seater 4x4 not clued up on the brand, but it looks fancy. Maynr a Mercedes? They paid a down payment to get a fancier car. The wife has back problems. Both work full time in the civilal sector, high paying jobs (,think CEO) see her out running all the time, competes in hyrox. He is a part time PT alongside his part time job in a trade.

Two of three of my kids are ND runners. I need a knee and hip replacement. On the waiting list for at least 4 years per op. Husband has three slipped discs, and can barely function. Amd can't walk, other than a stroll every 3-4 weeks
.. Not entitled to any mobility credits.

Oh no, my message was not aimed at you @youalright but was for @Meadowfinch -the other poster who talked about £77 a month. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm not them either!

Some of these comments are failing to realise just how much more it costs to be disabled.
Public transport is not an option for many disabled people so taxis are needed. Online deliveries also cost more. A reliable car is a lifeline enabling lots of disabled people to continue working. Lots of councils only offer blue badges to those on higher rate mobility PIP as well.

Please read the answer provided to that PP.

In a nutshell I do fund my vehicle the same way everyone does.
But I am not doing the same jobs, or receiving the same pay for the hours I do, and my additional disability related costs are massively higher than the able bodied workers I have to compete for work with, so I end up with insufficient money to pay for what I need to be able to work, just because I was born disabled.

I've offered some breakdown on the responding post, and I'm hoping it will help people like yourself have a little more insight into what it costs to be precarious disabled working competing with the able bodied.🙂

So if they have drastically cut back to save the money to pay they don’t deserve a mobility car? It’s also not just about costs it’s having a vehicle suitable for the persons needs. And as mummies with huge tank size prams seem to think they have priority on public transport then a vehicle for some is a lifeline. They can’t just ring a taxi to pick them up in 10 minutes. Accessible taxis have to be booked weeks in advance. There’s only one wheelchair accessible taxi in our whole area and not just to cover our town.

If you know the right things to say, &/or pay someone to help you fill it in, you can get awarded without an f2f assessment.

My cousin's child gets highest rate for both and has a fancy audi as their 1st car paid for with PIP.
Also allowed to learn to drive earlier than otherwise due to it. It was awarded as they'd put that X can't go out alone due to adhd and severe anxiety and outbursts.

In reality, X goes away on holiday with friends, and works in a customer facing role, and often drives to places alone, so their answers were not true.
They are also not the only person in the family to have done the same, so it does happen, and this is what people start to resent.
I don't condone it as it makes it harder for genuine claimants.

Except I didn't say that at all. You somehow misread:

Born visibly disabled, developed additional disabilities over time.
Self employed (no one wants to give me a job) wheelchair, several physical disabilities, no motability vehicle.
Simply can't pay my own way without additional mobility funding as being this disabled is actually expensive.
Two options:

1. help me be able to access paid work so I am not on UC and as a bonus do something useful for society..
2. Take away mobility funding, put me on UC, and make me stay at home doing nothing and not doing something useful.

and turned it into:

1. Mobility car = go to work.
2. No mobility car = go on UC

I'm not having a go at you, I'm interested in how on threads like this, posters do hugely misread things into other things. I think we may be programed to find things that match pre-conceptions, regardless of what's actually said?

You're so wrong there.
Only the 'they' able to disassemble and reassemble their wheelchairs (in other words both arms and hands working properly as well as the right kind of wheelchair) could get a wheelchair into them. Most couldn't so couldn't get one.

While most other drivers just moaned about them or hooted them to get out of the way because they had low speed and low acceleration, as full on road rage and public disability abuse of those able enough to drive was less common, when they got run off the road by usually 'C*'s in a Cortina' the drivers didn't fare well at all, and they also tipped over horribly easily on corners, and where dangerously unusable in snow and ice.

Anyone that wants my son's disabilties (38) can have the car.

Just to say I know it won't feel like it, but it may be a blessing in disguise that she can't. If you can it becomes an expectation that you must regardless of pain and damage.

My frequent operations to repair parts of me, are mainly for damage caused by having to do exactly that. Once you start down that path, you get stuck there.

I've also suffered a hip occlusion as a result of continuous use of a ramp that left me having to drop off it hard, one and a half inches above the floor where it stopped, systematically damaging my spine and hip. Every time I have to take myself off a kerb, I do more damage.

Glad your DD has you advocating for her.

Exactly, this group NEVER gets a mention even though they could work, some have never worked. Go after them before disabled people

Do those same resentful non-disabled drivers also resent the fact that they can walk whenever and wherever they want to. They can even run or ride a bycycle, they can get on any bus, at any bus-top, like a very busy high street, or a country lane with no paths, and especially no raised pathways. Do they also resent that they can get a taxi without having to wait for the only taxi in town that is a Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle, and that, as that taxi - private hire - driver owns his own car, he only works from 9.00am to 6.00pm, so you can usually only book him if you can do so at least a few days in advance, oh, and he doesn't work Sundays.

Most of us um, I mean, disabled people, who are disabled severely enough to qualify for the higher rate of the PIP mobility allowance - and no people living with solely ADHD, or any other non-physical disability, could qualify for it as you need a minimum of 12 points on an extremely difficult questionair sheet, to qualify for those 12 points. You also need to be able to show the examiner that you really are that disabled, and they seem to choose the most hard to convince examiners to do that.

I don't personally know, or know of, any severely disabled people who actually resent able bodied people, or their abilities to physically live their lives to the full. Thankfully, I was not born with any physical disabilities, I only started developing my life-changing disabilities after I was a nurse many years ago. Manual Handling was never spoken about when I first trained to be a nurse. So I am very pleased and grateful that most people will never know the stress and hardships of living with a severe disability,m. But I do have to be honest when I ask the billions of able-bodied people who can walk on our beautiful planet, to please try not to resent us occassionally being able to have a more comfortable car journey than some ablebodied people. As the OP said, we have to pay up to many thousands of pounds on top of our PIP to actually have one of the more comfortable models of car.

Don't disagree with the first bit but yes, It's to make life easier by driving the disabled person? They don't have to drive it themselves! Ya think kids drive?